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kmart888
01-05-2011, 03:01 PM
First let me say that when I bought My MR-T from Glendale Mitsubishi last January the owner of the dealership heaped praise on his technician “Reol” (sp?) who was a specially factory trained evo expert (I was refusing the extended warrantee being offered at the time). Last week I took the car in to them to have the TPMS(s) programmed and SST flushed and filled, I was told by the service advisor to come back for the SST service next week when Reol (the expert) was back from holiday. Again the service advisor went on and on about how he (Reol) was specially trained by the factory and knew just about everything there is to know about the Evo 10.

OK, so today, with 900 mi now on my new replaced TC-SST I take in to Glendale Mitsubishi for a change of fluid and a flush, here is how it went:

Service advisor: “The SST is a sealed unit never to be serviced”

Me: "Let me talk to Reol, I’m sure he can do what I want."

Reol: “The SST is a sealed unit never to be serviced”

(That was all I needed to know, I already decided to somewhere else)

Me: “You mean to tell me you cannot even drain and fill it and that the fluid should last the lifetime of the transmission?”.

Reol: Yes, ...it doesn’t even have a dipstick... how would I know how much fluid to fill it with...where do you pour the fluid in?” :uglystupid2: (I’m supposed to point out the bolt for him?)

Me: “Bye, have a nice new year”.

Some history:

Last September I took the car into "RRE" (not trusting a dealership and wanted to check out the shop) for a SST fluid change and flush, neither “Sam” the sales guy, nor anyone else at the shop at the moment even new that the Evo X came something other than a 5 speed, he didn't know that the SST had a replaceable filter or that it took special fluid, in fact he argued with me that I was wrong about the filter! After about a half an hour watching Sam call around to various suppliers trying to obtain this mysterious SST filter I left that shop.

Later that day I stopped by SoCoast Mitsubishi see if they knew what an SST filter was (perhaps I had been led astray by the "net"), wow they had one and the parts guy actually new about it so I decided to let them change the fluid. My first concern was when the technician came to me and asked “how much fluid should I put in it?” It was the next morning than my gearbox failed (P1808 fluid temperature failure). On reflection I am not sure he fully drained the box (removed all three bolts) or flushed it.

No wonder folks are starting to have problems with their SST faced with this widespread incompetence!

I do not want to put my car up on stands and do it myself, is there a shop in driving distance of greater Los Angeles or the San Fernando Valley that can correctly flush and fill my SST for me?

2010 MR-T (SST)
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP
Green relay (that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel relay!)

choicelaw
01-05-2011, 03:09 PM
Wait your saying RRE and South Coast did not know how to do it? Wow that seems unusual... :?

evopaul
01-05-2011, 03:12 PM
Just do it yourself!

kmart888
01-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Wait your saying RRE and South Coast did not know how to do it? Wow that seems unusual... :?
Trust me it is true, at least at the time I was at both shops trying to get it done. Folks who know me know I seldom flame anybody.* Do not believe me? Give either a call and ask about their procedure for flushing and replacing the fluid and filter as the service manual recommends, ask if they know what the service manual procedure is for flushing, ask how many liters it takes to correctly fill box, ask if they drain the cooler. You will be surprised at all the stammering and “we don’t recommend you do that” you will hear.

2010 MR-T (SST)
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP
Green relay (that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel relay!) :idiot2:

kmart888
01-05-2011, 08:09 PM
Just do it yourself!
"If you want it done right, do it yourself!"* Sad but true, unfortunatly it is far easier if the car is on a rack and not on jack stands in my garage and I'm getting old and lazy.

I am going to take to Jiffy Lube to be sure the job is done right

2010 MR-T (SST)
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP
Green relay (that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel relay!)

rl22
01-05-2011, 08:22 PM
Pm sent

zeRep85RA
01-05-2011, 08:56 PM
390 lb.ft./tq on TCSST?

Jeebus


zeRep

Mike W
01-05-2011, 09:13 PM
Obviously there is a lot of confusion about your transmission. Some of the guys here know more about the SST than others. We build a lot of custom SST tranny coolers and have changed more than a couple filters since this tranny came out in 2008. I'll have Sam beat for your pleasure. I know about all the various drain plugs and the fill proceedure. Lod does too, I think maybe Art. Honda, Ruben, Gus and Chris probably not.


I answered a filter location question on EVOM on the Sunday after Christmas:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/09-ralliart-engine-turbo-drivetrain/531336-picture-sst-transmission-filter-location.html


We do dual SST trans coolers like this for $650 installed:


http://roadraceengineering.com/evox/parts/rre/sst-coolers/front-01.jpg


http://roadraceengineering.com/evox/parts/rre/sst-coolers/side-01.jpg


http://roadraceengineering.com/evox/parts/rre/sst-coolers/side-02.jpg


http://roadraceengineering.com/evox/parts/rre/sst-coolers/side-03.jpg


http://roadraceengineering.com/evox/parts/rre/sst-coolers/side-04.jpg



Even in a shop that specializes in just EVOs and Eclipses, we have some guys that know more about some stuff than other stuff. And the other guys know more about the other stuff than the some stuff. Dont ask me about wheel offset or you'll have to come to So Cal EVO to write a big phat sad story for sure :-P One day maybe when the economy turns around I'll hire only everyone that knows everything about everything :-)


Mike W






Mike W

kmart888
01-05-2011, 09:23 PM
Obviously there is a lot of confusion about your transmission. ...
Mike W






Mike W

Understood, I talked to you at the Mitsu show/expo a few months back about doing a pro tune on my Evo X SST and you seemed very knowledgeable at the time, that is why when I had trouble communicating with the folks at your shop I had your secretary/receptionist email you with my questions;* l left my email and cell # in the email to you but never received a*response from you. So, what is your procedure, if any, for flushing the SST?

Regards,

Paul

kandyredcoi
01-05-2011, 09:30 PM
Nice coolers, havent read much about em, how do they compare to the OEM ones

kmart888
01-05-2011, 09:41 PM
Pm sent
recieved PM and sent a reply, thank you

kmart888
01-05-2011, 09:50 PM
390 lb.ft./tq on TCSST?

Jeebus


zeRep
That was with the stock turbo at 27 psi tapering to 17 psi on E85 at Shawn Churches Dynapack so the torque may be inflated. SST stood up to the torque for many drag strip launches no problem with clutch packs or overheating, my problems were electronic inside the TCU.

GokuSSJ4
01-05-2011, 10:21 PM
To the op your best bet is to communicate with mike via email
[email protected]

GokuSSJ4
01-05-2011, 10:23 PM
U also gotta remember that not every dyno is the same.
We have dyno jet, mustang dyno and dynopack.
Not a of them are the same in % to display whp or wtp.
Your best bet is to dyno on a vendor of your choice that caters to evo's, in order to compare apples to apples.

Mike W
01-05-2011, 10:54 PM
Nice coolers, havent read much about em, how do they compare to the OEM ones


Well the little front one up in the grille, there isnt a stock one so that means it is eleventy billion times infinity bigger than the stock one. The side one you can see the size difference here in this pic:

http://roadraceengineering.com/evox/parts/rre/sst-coolers/side-04.jpg


As far as how to "change"the fluid, I just do it the way Rigo @ SCM showed me. Pretty much factory style:

From the manual:


* * * * *
ON-VEHICLE SERVICE

TRANSMISSION OIL LEVEL CHECK


1.After cleaning the outer surface of transaxle, visually check that there is no oil oozing or oil leaking from the transaxle.

2.If an oil oozing or leaking is present, replace the transaxle assembly.
TRANSMISSION OIL CHANGE

1.Remove the engine compartment under cover front B assembly. (Refer to GROUP 51 − Under Cover P.51-16.)


2.Remove the oil drain plug to drain the oil.

NOTE:

Because the oil in the oil cooler and oil filter cannot be drained, the amount of drained oil will be approximately 5.5 dm3.

3.Tighten the oil drain plug to the specified torque.

Tightening torque: 25 N⋅m (19 ft-lb)

4.Remove the air cleaner element, air cleaner intake duct, and air cleaner body. (Refer to GROUP 15 − Air Cleaner P.15-10.)

5.Remove the oil filler plug, then fill the oil.

Brand name: Mitsubishi genuine Dia-Queen SSTF-I

Filling amount: Approximately 5.5 dm3 (approximately 5.8 quarts)

6.Tighten the oil filler plug to the specified torque.

Tightening torque: 25 N⋅m (19 ft-lb)

http://roadraceengineering.com/evox/tech/sst-fillanddrain.jpg

7.Install the air cleaner element, air cleaner intake duct, and air cleaner body. (Refer to GROUP 15 − Air Cleaner P.15-10.)

8.Start the engine, then let it idle for 1 to 2 minutes.

9.Move the shift lever to every position, and then move it to the P or N range.

10.Stop the engine, then perform Steps 2 to 5 again.

11.Check the oil level and oil fouling. (Refer to P.22C-328.) If fouling is found, repeat Steps 2 to 5 until the fouling is eliminated.

12.Install the engine compartment under cover front B assembly. (Refer to GROUP 51 − Under Cover P.51-16.)





Or if you bring some special instructions we can do it how ever you like. Keep in mind "flushing" connotes rinsing things out with $30 a liter fluid. It can get expensive if you really want that thing rinsed good. On a true auto transmission car there is a torque converter that is full of fluid that you can not drain. So they hook up a machine that keeps pumping and filtering and changing out the fluid until all the old junk is flushed out and only new fresh stuff is in there. Your SST does not have this kind of set up. This is the reason for all the different drains.* That way the old fluid can get out of all the various pockets inside the different areas of the transmission.

Mike W

Mike W
01-05-2011, 10:57 PM
And since the manual says:

NOTE:

Because the oil in the oil cooler and oil filter cannot be drained, the amount of drained oil will be approximately 5.5 dm3.



If a guy wanted to be sure that was changed you would need to change the filter and pull off the bumper cover to dump out the cooler/s or get to the lines to disconnect them to let it all drain.

Mike W

Mike W
01-05-2011, 11:03 PM
One more thing, I love how the guys (MMSA) that sell the million dollar fluid are the ones telling you to rinse-repeat rinse-repeat rinse-repeat. Someone is making some cash :-)

I'll go back to e-mail now Goku.

Mike W

Michael Scott
01-05-2011, 11:14 PM
Well one you already made a mistake going to church to tune your car and two you're about to make another one if you take your car to jiffy lube to flush your tranny :2funny: O0

HMatt
01-05-2011, 11:31 PM
^You beat me to the church comment... but he never said Church tuned it... Just that he used that dyno.

zeRep85RA
01-05-2011, 11:48 PM
RRE FTW

kmart888
01-06-2011, 12:03 AM
To the op your best bet is to communicate with mike via email
[email protected]


will do

jamesinger
01-06-2011, 12:16 AM
Who installed all those mods for you? I ask because I would assume you have a relationship with them that would be strong enough to have your fluids changed by them.

For my own EVO VIII, RRE and SCM have never led me astray, so I stick with that combo of shops for what I need. It is all about communication though and it sounds like you already hooked up with Mike and Rigo, so you are in good hands.

I agree that Glendale Mitsu are jokers. I was just talking to someone today about how even when I gave them part numbers, they still couldn't get things right for me. I even tried to buy an EVO off them when I was first shopping for one and they couldn't even answer simple questions about the difference between models. At one point, I was talking to 3 salesmen and a guy in service who was "way in to EVOs" but knew nothing about EVOs. I did the same thing as you. After a few basic warm up round questions could not be answered, I just said, "Good luck to you guys" and took off.

Good Luck with your SST!!

kmart888
01-06-2011, 12:28 AM
Well one you already made a mistake going to church to tune your car and two you're about to make another one if you take your car to jiffy lube to flush your tranny :2funny: O0
Jiffy Lube is the shit!

Hey guys, all I am asking for is to follow the factory recommended proceedure on a $10,000 gearbox. I am dismayed that so few are even aware of the drain fill drain recommendation but even fewer are following it!

Rumor has it the Mitsubishi now recommends using mineral oil (whatever that is) instead of DiaQueen for the intermediate fill, I do not have the latest revisions to the service manual, I Have same thing Mike W posted. I would not put mineral oil in the SST, even temporarily, based on “the net”

Fluid is cheap considering the cost of a new gearbox! *

kmart888
01-06-2011, 12:54 AM
Who installed all those mods for you? I ask because I would assume you have a relationship with them that would be strong enough to have your fluids changed by them.HB Speed closed in October, they will reopen this month as Cobb SoCal.




I agree that Glendale Mitsu are jokers. I was just talking to someone today about how even when I gave them part numbers, they still couldn't get things right for me. I even tried to buy an EVO off them when I was first shopping for one and they couldn't even answer simple questions about the difference between models. At one point, I was talking to 3 salesmen and a guy in service who was "way in to EVOs" but knew nothing about EVOs. I did the same thing as you. After a few basic warm up round questions could not be answered, I just said, "Good luck to you guys" and took off.

Good Luck with your SST!!
Of the three shops I flamed today Glendale Mitsubish was by far the most egregios yet they are the only ones not to have verbally bitch slaped me in messages and PM's. It was me getting pissed at them that prompted me to dredge up stuff that happened 4 months ago! I will probably end up apologizing to Sam Mike and Rigo, but not today, maybe tomorrow but not today. Damn I missed the Lakers game!



2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs,
OEM DiaQueen SSTF fluid
SSP deep sump
SSP front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/ WORKS dropin filter
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS "widemouth" DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP
Ca 91 Oct
Green relay (that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel relay!)

blkside
01-06-2011, 01:26 AM
Nice coolers, havent read much about em, how do they compare to the OEM ones


Coi I have the oil cooler for my 5 speed Mike made for my beast and if these work a 1/4 as well as
My oil cooler you are golden. My temp hasn't raised one
Degree even after a good flogging

rl22
01-06-2011, 06:14 AM
MITSUBISHI WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY ON THE SST TRANS UNLESS DIAQUEEN FLUID IS BEING USED.

kandyredcoi
01-06-2011, 07:17 AM
cool, might add that to my wishlist, thanks!




Nice coolers, havent read much about em, how do they compare to the OEM ones


Coi I have the oil cooler for my 5 speed Mike made for my beast and if these work a 1/4 as well as
My oil cooler you are golden. My temp hasn't raised one
Degree even after a good flogging

HMatt
01-06-2011, 09:36 AM
MITSUBISHI WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY ON THE SST TRANS UNLESS DIAQUEEN FLUID IS BEING USED.


Wow... That specific eh?

Skiracer
01-06-2011, 09:46 AM
I think the same applies to the tranny on the 5 speed GSR

rl22
01-06-2011, 09:46 AM
MITSUBISHI WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY ON THE SST TRANS UNLESS DIAQUEEN FLUID IS BEING USED.


Wow... That specific eh?

YUP!!!
ITS THEIR RULES, WE COULD ONLY PLAY THE GAME THEY WAY THEY SET IT UP *:'(

rl22
01-06-2011, 09:49 AM
I think the same applies to the tranny on the 5 speed GSR

no gsr trans they allow other fluids to be used. as long as they meet their requirements... like BG SYNCRO SHIFT, REDLINE ETC...

obstacle1
01-06-2011, 09:52 AM
MITSUBISHI WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY ON THE SST TRANS UNLESS DIAQUEEN FLUID IS BEING USED.


Wow... That specific eh?

Yea, I believe Dia Queen made a "specially formulated" fluid for SST trans, or they have an exclusive contract to use their products.

HMatt
01-06-2011, 09:55 AM
^Well that sucks... so even if the other fluid is better and makes the tranny work better and last longer, it still voids the warranty... wow...

Out of curiosity rigo, can you tell the difference in the oil you guys take out of the SST's?

rl22
01-06-2011, 09:58 AM
YES, so far all the different oils we have come across or mitsu has come across they all have a different tint or color.
very easy to see the difference

rl22
01-06-2011, 10:01 AM
the biggest problem with the aftermarket oils as per mitsubishi is they don't work with the electronics in the sst. most of the failed components is temp sensor or valvebody.

revolutionIX
01-06-2011, 10:06 AM
First let me say that when I bought My MR-T from Glendale Mitsubishi last January the owner of the dealership heaped praise on his technician “Reol” (sp?) who was a specially factory trained evo expert (I was refusing the extended warrantee being offered at the time). Last week I took the car in to them to have the TPMS(s) programmed and SST flushed and filled, I was told by the service advisor to come back for the SST service next week when Reol (the expert) was back from holiday. Again the service advisor went on and on about how he (Reol) was specially trained by the factory and knew just about everything there is to know about the Evo 10.

OK, so today, with 900 mi now on my new replaced TC-SST I take in to Glendale Mitsubishi for a change of fluid and a flush, here is how it went:

Service advisor: “The SST is a sealed unit never to be serviced”

Me: "Let me talk to Reol, I’m sure he can do what I want."

Reol: “The SST is a sealed unit never to be serviced”

(That was all I needed to know, I already decided to somewhere else)

Me: “You mean to tell me you cannot even drain and fill it and that the fluid should last the lifetime of the transmission?”.

Reol: Yes, ...it doesn’t even have a dipstick... how would I know how much fluid to fill it with...where do you pour the fluid in?” *:uglystupid2: (I’m supposed to point out the bolt for him?)

Me: “Bye, have a nice new year”.

Some history:

Last September I took the car into "RRE" (not trusting a dealership and wanted to check out the shop) for a SST fluid change and flush, neither “Sam” the sales guy, nor anyone else at the shop at the moment even new that the Evo X came something other than a 5 speed, he didn't know that the SST had a replaceable filter or that it took special fluid, in fact he argued with me that I was wrong about the filter! After about a half an hour watching Sam call around to various suppliers trying to obtain this mysterious SST filter I left that shop.

Later that day I stopped by SoCoast Mitsubishi see if they knew what an SST filter was (perhaps I had been led astray by the "net"), wow they had one and the parts guy actually new about it so I decided to let them change the fluid. My first concern was when the technician came to me and asked “how much fluid should I put in it?” It was the next morning than my gearbox failed (P1808 fluid temperature failure). On reflection I am not sure he fully drained the box (removed all three bolts) or flushed it.

No wonder folks are starting to have problems with their SST faced with this widespread incompetence!

I do not want to put my car up on stands and do it myself, is there a shop in driving distance of greater Los Angeles or the San Fernando Valley that can correctly flush and fill my SST for me?

2010 MR-T (SST)
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP
Green relay (that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel relay!)





Should have bought a stick shift. *

It's embarrassing that these cars even come with the SST option in my opinion..

kmart888
01-06-2011, 10:14 AM
Should have bought a stick shift.*

It's embarrassing that these cars even come with the SST option in my opinion..
Never, I love the SST inspite of the self inflicted problems problems I've experienced.

revolutionIX
01-06-2011, 10:15 AM
Well one you already made a mistake going to church to tune your car and two you're about to make another one if you take your car to jiffy lube to flush your tranny :2funny: O0
Jiffy Lube is the shit!

Hey guys, all I am asking for is to follow the factory recommended proceedure on a $10,000 gearbox. I am dismayed that so few are even aware of the drain fill drain recommendation but even fewer are following it!

Rumor has it the Mitsubishi now recommends using mineral oil (whatever that is) instead of DiaQueen for the intermediate fill, I do not have the latest revisions to the service manual, I Have same thing Mike W posted. I would not put mineral oil in the SST, even temporarily, based on “the net”

Fluid is cheap considering the cost of a new gearbox! *



Dude, are you seriously serious right now..?* Jiffy Lube is the shit..? * :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
NO, Jiffy Lube is SHIT!! *Bunch of teenagers thinking they know how to change oil(s) cause they just got out off auto shop class at high school..LoL *If take your Evo there, you deserve to get your warranty revoked!

HMatt
01-06-2011, 10:20 AM
Jiffy Lube or Walmart for oil changes = FAIL!

revolutionIX
01-06-2011, 10:21 AM
Jiffy Lube or Walmart for oil changes = FAIL!


+ 1 billion!!!!!!!

kmart888
01-06-2011, 10:31 AM
MITSUBISHI WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY ON THE SST TRANS UNLESS DIAQUEEN FLUID IS BEING USED.
I assume this is directed at me, I used “Willall” fluid in my SST, I had the temperature sensor issue, I accepted responsibility for it and bought a new gearbox out of pocket, I did not even try to bamboozle Mitsubishi and get it fixed under warrantee. I am now trying to keep my new SST pristine by doing an early service to clean out any factory debris and metal filing from gear sets seating in the first few hundred miles of use. (SST, stock clutch packs, OEM fluid, *SSP deep sump, and SSP front mount cooler).

kmart888
01-06-2011, 10:36 AM
Jiffy Lube or Walmart for oil changes = FAIL!


+ 1 billion!!!!!!!
You guys have no sence of satire, I guess I should have a smily on my post (groan)

revolutionIX
01-06-2011, 10:39 AM
^^well it didn't really sound like you were kidding about it..

kmart888
01-06-2011, 10:40 AM
YES, so far all the different oils we have come across or mitsu has come across they all have a different tint or color.
very easy to see the difference
Rigo, FYI both Willall (special formulation) and SSP (Pro Gold) now offer fluids in almost identical color to (yellow) DiaQueen.

kmart888
01-06-2011, 10:41 AM
Duplicate

kmart888
01-06-2011, 10:41 AM
Duplicate

HMatt
01-06-2011, 10:44 AM
^Key word... ALMOST!

And I'm sure if they get the color close enough, Mitsu will start having the dealership send off a sample of oil from the inside of the tranny to be tested before the will honor a claim.

rl22
01-06-2011, 11:05 AM
MITSUBISHI WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY ON THE SST TRANS UNLESS DIAQUEEN FLUID IS BEING USED.
I assume this is directed at me, I used “Willall” fluid in my SST, I had the temperature sensor issue, I accepted responsibility for it and bought a new gearbox out of pocket, I did not even try to bamboozle Mitsubishi and get it fixed under warrantee. I am now trying to keep my new SST pristine by doing an early service to clean out any factory debris and metal filing from gear sets seating in the first few hundred miles of use. (SST, stock clutch packs, OEM fluid, SSP deep sump, and SSP front mount cooler).

NO my remark was not towards you. im only telling who ever reads on these forums to be very careful on what fluids they choose if some warranty is excepted.

Azian
01-06-2011, 11:16 AM
Jiffy Lube or Walmart for oil changes = FAIL!


+ 1 billion!!!!!!!
You guys have no sence of satire, I guess I should have a smily on my post* (groan)
You forgot this is the INTERNET!!!!!! ;)

kmart888
01-06-2011, 01:21 PM
^Key word... ALMOST!

And I'm sure if they get the color close enough, Mitsu will start having the dealership send off a sample of oil from the inside of the tranny to be tested before the will honor a claim.
Willall claims their special formulation is identical in color, SSP claims it's Pro Gold is "close"* .

Mike W
01-06-2011, 02:22 PM
MMSA can deny what they want for what ever pretend reason they want. But a real lawyer can ass fuck them back to the stone ages easily with federal law. And you can collect the lawyer fees too (paragraph d).



TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 50 > Federal minimum standards for warranties

(c) Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).





Warrantor (MMSA) needs to prove that the wrong oil caused the failure. Also federal law was long ago established that if a specific brand of something is required to keep the warranty in effect, then they have to provide it for free during the warranty period. Otherwise they could specify that you can only use Mitsubishi plugs, Mitsubishi oil filters... kind of kills the whole aftermarket and free market competition. The Department of Commerce kind of frowns on that.

Is a track day unreasonable use I wonder?

Mike W

FUEL
01-06-2011, 02:46 PM
Would a "Driving Clinic" be unresonable use? I would only be trying to learn to drive this AWD "Monster" they sell.... right?

Mitsubishi "encourages" modding! I have my OG brochure from my VIII...it is clearly there in the brochure to "Go Forth and Mod!!!" ... I need to go get a pic and post it here.... maybe email them a copy too?

Maybe they're saying the "New" Evo is not as good as the old one? Hence all the voided warranty's? Anyone have a copy of an Evo X brochure?

Mike W
01-06-2011, 03:52 PM
It came in your glove box. I posted a link to the warranty in the other be careful about your warranty thread.

Mike W

FUEL
01-06-2011, 04:30 PM
I meant the "Sales" Brochure thingy they offer @ the dealer to "entice" someone to buy these cars.... I'm not worried about my X .... it's stock :buck2: and boring....

Well sorry for the crappy cell phone pics.... but my how Mitsu has changed their "tune" from a few years ago !

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/missevo8/IMG02186-20110106-1421.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/missevo8/IMG02181-20110106-1419.jpg

Mitsubishi CLEARLY encouraged people to modify the cars in the past.... :-\ apparently isn't so anymore...so my X will stay STOCK and BORING :angel:

kandyredcoi
01-06-2011, 05:49 PM
thanks for posting this :)


MMSA can deny what they want for what ever pretend reason they want. But a real lawyer can ass fuck them back to the stone ages easily with federal law. And you can collect the lawyer fees too (paragraph d).



TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 50 > Federal minimum standards for warranties

(c) Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).





Warrantor (MMSA) needs to prove that the wrong oil caused the failure. Also federal law was long ago established that if a specific brand of something is required to keep the warranty in effect, then they have to provide it for free during the warranty period. Otherwise they could specify that you can only use Mitsubishi plugs, Mitsubishi oil filters... kind of kills the whole aftermarket and free market competition. The Department of Commerce kind of frowns on that.

Is a track day unreasonable use I wonder?

Mike W

Mike W
01-06-2011, 06:03 PM
MMSA is telling you to Go Forth and Modify with Genuine MMSA accessories. Child safe shift knobs, floor mats and strut tower bars in the borchure. They never sold any accessory that could hurt a fly and never will.

They had a guy that they hired all happy away from Mopar and made him Lord God King of RalliArt USA. Woulda been about the time they made your flier and that video with rally cars flying and club meets and shit. He thought he was going to do something cool. Anything cool. He left after about 6 months from what I remember out of frustration. Floor mats and mud flaps and key fobs wasnt what he thought he'd be doing.

MIke W

hyper
01-06-2011, 06:41 PM
^ You mean my aftermarket shiftknob and floor mats made of clear plastic floor runners will void my warranty?! :(

FUEL
01-06-2011, 06:59 PM
MMSA is telling you to Go Forth and Modify with Genuine MMSA accessories. Child safe shift knobs, floor mats and strut tower bars in the borchure. They never sold any accessory that could hurt a fly and never will.

They had a guy that they hired all happy away from Mopar and made him Lord God King of RalliArt USA. Woulda been about the time they made your flier and that video with rally cars flying and club meets and shit. He thought he was going to do something cool. Anything cool. He left after about 6 months from what I remember out of frustration. Floor mats and mud flaps and key fobs wasnt what he thought he'd be doing.

MIke W



Very sad :(* * * Evo's could have taken over motorsports the world over! :-P

Those mother F*&*ers! :tickedoff: ......... here I thought I could jump, track and mod my Evo VIII and X based off their sales brochure! I have the MMSA all weather mats too :buck2: and the key fob!

jamesinger
01-06-2011, 08:23 PM
MMSA is telling you to Go Forth and Modify with Genuine MMSA accessories. Child safe shift knobs, floor mats and strut tower bars in the borchure. They never sold any accessory that could hurt a fly and never will.

They had a guy that they hired all happy away from Mopar and made him Lord God King of RalliArt USA. Woulda been about the time they made your flier and that video with rally cars flying and club meets and shit. He thought he was going to do something cool. Anything cool. He left after about 6 months from what I remember out of frustration. Floor mats and mud flaps and key fobs wasnt what he thought he'd be doing.

MIke W



Are puddle lights ok?

From experience, when lawyers get involved with corporate, warranties get honored as long as the person did not do any mods that clearly and directly caused the damage. I doubt corporate cares too much about an internet forum but they do care about legal action.

FUEL
01-06-2011, 10:58 PM
I should just start modding the Outlander then...and leave the X alone... It came w/ mudflaps and the flappy paddle gear box.

Can RRE tune Outlander GT's ?* It has a V6 and I was told it shares the nifty gear box with the Ralliart ? What kind of fluid does that thing use? Diaqueen also?

blkside
01-06-2011, 11:06 PM
Or everyone can modify their cars and stop worrying about the warranty. Or they can leave it stock and warranty themselves to death.

You pay to play...

FUEL
01-06-2011, 11:20 PM
I want our new Outlander to make 800hp ......and still have warranty :)

blkside
01-06-2011, 11:24 PM
I already told Eric I got a 10 turbo in the garage waiting for him...

FUEL
01-06-2011, 11:52 PM
Good.... He can get that thing ported before he put's it on lol ..... He did say he was going to email Mike about tuning that thing.

HMatt
01-07-2011, 03:27 AM
I should just start modding the Outlander then...and leave the X alone... It came w/ mudflaps and the flappy paddle gear box.

Can RRE tune Outlander GT's ?* It has a V6 and I was told it shares the nifty gear box with the Ralliart ? What kind of fluid does that thing use? Diaqueen also?


I don't know if you can tune the outlanders... If you can, I'll get in line. Could always use a little more power and gas mileage. It also DOESN'T share the ralliart gearbox. It has a 6-speed automatic, not the SST. If it had the SST, I would have probably broken it by now... HAHA!

FUEL
01-07-2011, 04:52 AM
Weird.... I came across that "tranny"* info on a car website trying to find out more info about the thing.... Guess it was wrong.... Lol oh well it will probably last longer then!*

I was told by Sam its has its "own" V6.... It doesn't "share" the V6 w/ the Eclipse....

But tuning for better* gas mileage and a wee bit more power would be nice. :d

It does need better brakes..... They're not too great :buck2: .... We will look into better pads and possibly lines and fluid for the thing.......oh and the roof rack.... I wouldn't put anything on that aluminum roof.... But would add the roof rack for "cute" points :d

HMatt
01-07-2011, 05:11 AM
^Yeah, I was told by another dealership that it was the SST like the ralliart as well. But if you have ever driven an SST, you can tell the difference. When you hit the paddle shifter in the SST, it's like an INSTANT shift. With the one in the outlander (and a few other mitsu cars), you hit the shifter and there is a delay. Plus, if it did have the same one, it would have the different shift modes, you know?

I like not having the roof rack. I'm sure you could have it put on, and it would be unique.... I haven't seen a GT with a roof rack.

I was looking at the brakes on mine too... I need to do some more measurements when I get back, but it looks like you could bolt the evo brembos onto it... I'm not 100% sure yet, but they looked the proper size and might even be the same bracket as the evos... Like I said though, I need to do more research.

Damn this went off topic quick... My bad...

FUEL
01-07-2011, 05:26 AM
Yes....offtopic just a bit lol....how to void warranty on your Outlanter GT lol*

We where looking @ the brakes..... Muellerized worked on the concept "Evolander" which had 6 Piston Brembo's on it a few years back.... I know they can probably make it work.... It is built on the same platform as the X ........ Sad thing is this "mini" SUV only weighs 300lbs more then the MR Touring Edition :buck2:* Evo's need a diet !*

I've only driven Evo's and other cars with real gear boxes ..... So this is my 1st flappy paddle gear box experience !* If it where to come with a Manual and all the same amenities I'm sure we would have chosen that route instead of the auto

I haven't seen one on the road yet.

So I guess back on topic and stuff....

I wonder if visiting this site will* void your warranty on your Evo?

HMatt
01-07-2011, 05:35 AM
Well... No more warranty for me anyway... And I had a shit-ton of warranty work done to it like the week before it expired! HAHAHA!

kmart888
01-07-2011, 11:32 AM
Rigo of South Coast Mitsubishi PM’d me and said he would do a “by the book” TC-SST service (what some of us have euphemistically been calling a drain and flush). After talking to Rigo he convinced me that he know more about the SST then I could hope to ever know so I took my car in to them yesterday and had the SST serviced. Though I did not watch I am confident it was done right.

Thank you Rigo and please accept my humble apology for yesterday’s flame.
A big thumbs up for South Coast Mitsubishi! O0

Mike W of RRE also proved he knows his stuff, in fact he copied and pasted the actual TC-SST service procedure in this thread.

Glendale still gets a thumbs down for incompetence! :idiot2:

2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs
OEM DiaQueen SST fluid
SSP trans Deep Sump
SSP Front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP (cleaned up by Bryan)
Green relay (that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel pump relay!)* :?

kmart888
01-07-2011, 12:12 PM
...Warrantor (MMSA) needs to prove that the wrong oil caused the failure. Also federal law was long ago established that if a specific brand of something is required to keep the warranty in effect, then they have to provide it for free during the warranty period. Otherwise they could specify that you can only use Mitsubishi plugs, Mitsubishi oil filters... kind of kills the whole aftermarket and free market competition. The Department of Commerce kind of frowns on that...


Normal* thread drift:

True but MMSA can stipulate the specifications for the fluid to be approved. I don’t know boo about “electrostatic properties” of oil, what does that mean? Capacitance? Resistance? Conductivity?* But I am pretty sure the heavier viscosity of the aftermarket DCT fluids don’t meet MMSA specifications. A case has been made (by Getrag) that the higher pressure caused by the heaver oil when cold can cause a solenoid to throw an electric pulse and fry the electronics in the TCU.


And how have the aftermarket suppliers of this fluid responded? Apparently they changed the color to match OEM fluid rather trying to meet MMSA specifications.* Error on the safe side, stick with DiaQueen in the SST.



2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs
OEM DiaQueen SST fluid
SSP trans Deep Sump
SSP Front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP (cleaned up by Bryan)
Green relay (that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel pump relay!)* :grin:

kmart888
01-07-2011, 12:37 PM
MITSUBISHI WILL NOT HONOR THE WARRANTY ON THE SST TRANS UNLESS DIAQUEEN FLUID IS BEING USED.

Wow... That specific eh?

Yea, I believe Dia Queen made a "specially formulated" fluid for SST trans, or they have an exclusive contract to use their products.
I have been told that Getrag of Germany, the manufacturer of the trans, formulated the fluid and set the specs for other suppliers of fluid to meet and so far Mitsubishi Diaqueen sstf is the only oil to meet Getrag specification.

rl22
01-07-2011, 02:00 PM
THANK YOU!

Mike W
01-07-2011, 03:28 PM
I wonder... ( I do that sometimes) if Ghetrag in Germany since they also make the SST/DSG trannys for BMW and VW et all... so MMSA is saying that Ghetrag makes each manufacturer make their own special sauce fluid that each manufacturer can sell for a million bucks a liter? Or you think it is all the same shznit probably?

What do the VW and BMW boys use in their Ghetrag built trannys?

Mike W

jamesinger
01-07-2011, 03:42 PM
The special fluids thing has to be BS. I would assume that the fluid is the only fluid tested and approved by mitsu. It is the only fluid they will warranty because it is the only fluid they know works (+ as said before they probably have a special deal with the mfg.). Other than that, Mitsu does not know, so they won't cover shit, especially if people are being alchemists and putting castor oil and stuff down their trannies.

rl22
01-07-2011, 04:04 PM
My brother is a parts manager for a vw store and he thinks its the same shit.
For what its worth

kmart888
01-07-2011, 04:40 PM
I wonder... ( I do that sometimes) if Ghetrag in Germany since they also make the SST/DSG trannys for BMW and VW et all... so MMSA is saying that Ghetrag makes each manufacturer make their own special sauce fluid that each manufacturer can sell for a million bucks a liter? Or you think it is all the same shznit probably?

Mike W

Bmw and Volvo use Getrag DCT's, in fact the Volvo is the same gearbox as the Lancer, the Bmw M3 is not. From a cursory search on their forums it appears that they also do not approve of any aftermarket fluid, (sombody said Volvo fluid is the same stuff but cheaper than SSTF) someone will correct me if I am wrong. VW DCT’s are made by the VolksWagon Group and I think the GTR DTC is produced by Borg Warner, totally different animals

Mike W
01-07-2011, 05:23 PM
Wikipedia Says:


Getrag

Getrag has developed a complete range of DCT transaxles, including 7DCL750, a seven-speed transaxle for mid-engine longitudinal applications, capable of taking more than 750 N·m (553 ft·lbf). Getrag will be providing its DCT in its first commercial applications, for the Dodge Journey and Volvo S40 and V50, from mid-2008. Getrag has the 6DCT250 dry DCT under development, for use in front wheel drive transverse applications, and uses electro-mechanical actuation, rather than electro-hydraulic.

In the 2nd quarter of 2008, Getrag had signed an agreement with Chrysler to supply its PowerShift DTCs for use in American markets. However, due to the global economic downturn, this was subsequently cancelled.

Getrag is also working with Bosch to develop a DCT for use in hybrid vehicles.

Getrag dual clutch transmissions are used in the BMW M3, BMW Z4 Sdrive35i, Ferrari California, Ferrari 458 Italia, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Ford and Renault vehicles.



Mike W

kmart888
01-07-2011, 05:34 PM
Wikipedia Says:


...Getrag dual clutch transmissions are used in the BMW M3, BMW Z4 Sdrive35i, Ferrari California, Ferrari 458 Italia, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Ford and Renault vehicles.



Mike W

Uh that is what I said, just did not include the full list as we were not talking them there cars. Oh and it loos like the missed Volvo in the above sentence. Getrag does not make the VW box or the GTR box. your point?

kmart888
01-07-2011, 05:35 PM
Duplicate

kmart888
01-07-2011, 05:44 PM
This is what my SST the filter looked like after only 1000mi, the fluid looked new, So maby I was crazy for servicing the SST early :$:
but the cost was minimal compared to the cost of the SST.

FUEL
01-07-2011, 09:58 PM
:buck2: seems a lot of worrying and headache for that expensive flappy paddle gear box

HMatt
01-07-2011, 10:25 PM
^Hey now.... Nothing wrong with that thing if that's what you want... To each their own. I'm looking into a ralliart sportback for a DD... It's nice not have to shift gears in traffic sometimes, you know? Ofcourse I don't plan on modding it passed an X turbo/intercooler and a tune either.

FUEL
01-07-2011, 11:33 PM
Pffft..... Laziness .... I dunno I just don't "think" about the shifting anymore.... I just drive. It's just the whole cost of the thing if it breaks.... 10K?????? We're not driving a Porsche! :buck2:

blkside
01-07-2011, 11:51 PM
WTF would you change it after 1000 miles? That's some dumb shit no offense...

HMatt
01-08-2011, 12:14 AM
^Cuz he's scurred of screwing up another one.

kmart888
01-08-2011, 12:16 AM
WTF would you change it after 1000 miles? That's some dumb shit no offense...
No offence..? Offence taken! >:( I repeat what I posted earlier in this thread:

"It is oft times a very good idea to change out the break-in fluid early on in any new componant (motor, gearbox, transfercase, etc). Metal filling accrue rapidly during the initial break-in (seating of gear sets in this case) plus usually some casting debris shakes off in the first few hundred miles. There are pictures on the forum of black contaminated fluid and clogged filters from the first SST fluid change and clean fluid comming out on subsequent fluid changes. It is a big investment, fluid is cheap in comparison."

I showed the results so others would see it did not not look like it was necessary but I will do an oil change of any gearbox, tranfer case, diferential, or motor 500 to 1000 mi after break-in. You can follow the* factory recommended 30-60k before the first change or follow Glendale Mitsubihi's recomendation of never changing the fluid ever if you wish, we will see who is the dumb ass in the long run.

HMatt
01-08-2011, 12:24 AM
^See, scurred of screwing up another one. I would be too. 10K is a little high on the price mark, and I really wouldn't want to have my car down while waiting for a new one to go in even if it was done under warranty.

I have seen the pictures you are talking about and I don't know if I would do the fluid in 1000 miles... but I would do it around 3K or the next time I change my motor oil.

kmart888
01-08-2011, 12:31 AM
^See, scurred of screwing up another one. I would be too. 10K is a little high on the price mark, and I really wouldn't want to have my car down while waiting for a new one to go in even if it was done under warranty.

I have seen the pictures you are talking about and I don't know if I would do the fluid in 1000 miles... but I would do it around 3K or the next time I change my motor oil.
Thank you

blkside
01-08-2011, 02:02 AM
Ok I didn't see it was break in.. Just saw after 1000 miles...

Second let's evaluate some stuff...

They swear the motor by itself is 13k and then you add 10k for a tranny. That's 23 thousand dollars... I call bullshit cause how is a ralli art going for 26k.... Same parts so the rest of an Evo costs 3k.... I think it's more of MMNA raping

FUEL
01-08-2011, 02:14 AM
Kmart guy:

Doesn't matter if u change it after 500, 1000, *30K or never......based on the mods in your sig and the "times" ..... You're launching that thing and your car's modded...... VOIDED WARRENTY :buck2:

Might want to get rid of your "bragging" in your sig.... MMC is lurking and taking notes of mods, racing, track days etc..... Looking for a reason to void a persons warranty

Hey maybe you're super baller and can afford 10K SST trannys..... More power to u

Or u don't care and just want to yell "FUCK YOU" MMC !

You said you changed the fluid as an investment? Precautionary maintenance is more like it... And when did ANY vehicle besides something purchased @ a Barret Jackson Auction become an investment? They're all money pits the moment you drive the POS off the lot. IMO. :buck2:

GokuSSJ4
01-08-2011, 02:38 AM
All I can say is that I'm fking glad I have a 5 speed and less headaches then dealing with a foo foo tranny that's sooo fkig temperamental. Fk! Talk about being expensive and sensitive loll
10k damn!

kmart888
01-08-2011, 11:30 AM
Kmart guy:

Doesn't matter if u change it after 500, 1000,* 30K or never......based on the mods in your sig and the "times" ..... You're launching that thing and your car's modded...... VOIDED WARRENTY :buck2:

Might want to get rid of your "bragging" in your sig.... MMC is lurking and taking notes of mods, racing, track days etc..... Looking for a reason to void a persons warranty

Hey maybe you're super baller and can afford 10K SST trannys..... More power to u

Or u don't care and just want to yell "FUCK YOU" MMC !

You said you changed the fluid as an investment? Precautionary maintenance is more like it... And when did ANY vehicle besides something purchased @ a Barret Jackson Auction become an investment? They're all money pits the moment you drive the POS off the lot. IMO. :buck2:

Thank for your unsolicited advice, I hope it gets you off! My warrantee went out the window when I started moding the car* and when I changed out the OEM fluid in the SST as did the warrantee of most of the folk here if they are honest about it. I am not a baller (i don’t think) but I try and* accept responsibility for my actions (within reason) "You pay to play". The "investment",* as you would know if took time to read some of the thread, is the new gearbox I just replaced due to the temp sensor failure, warrantee is rejected if you use aftermarket fluid in this baby.*

You might want to refer to a dictionary and look up the full definition of "investment" before criticizing my choice of words.

My last several post's in this thread have been directed to other MR owners to hopefully not make the same mistakes I have made, save them the expense a new SST (by not using aftermarket fluid) and also to show them they do not need to waste money on a break-in fluid change as I did,* most folk here cannot afford these expenses as easily as I can. Sometimes it falls on deaf ears or, as in this case,* on post whores and bullies who are more interested stroking their own egos than adding anything constructive to the dialog .

Say what you want in retort, the last word is yours as I shall ignore you from here on.

kmart888
01-08-2011, 12:10 PM
All I can say is that I'm fking glad I have a 5 speed and less headaches then dealing with a foo foo tranny that's sooo fkig temperamental. Fk! Talk about being expensive and sensitive loll
10k damn!


The SST is not all that temperamental, in fact I would hazard a guess that they are stronger than the 5 speed. There are folks out there pulling over 500hp and 400lbft without incident. Of the few failures that have been reported on the forums only one that I know of was mechanical in nature,*the few others failed from an electronic failure inside the TCU (not a serviceable item at the moment) and almost all of these were using an unapproved aftermarket fluid as was I, unfortunately Mitsu will reject the warrantee coverage if it is discovered and this is an expensive piece!

For me it is the SST is the car, it is what makes it unique and the reason I love this car! I own two other sports cars with manual boxes, hell the S2000 has one of the slickest 6 speeds ever conceived by man and I love to drive it. But it when it comes down to which car to take, DD or weekends, I almost always choose the MR, it is by far more fun to drive; I actually have more control over the way I use the power (in manual “sport” mode) than with a manual and on the track “S-Sport” mode in auto is the shit! I guess that is why M3’s, GTR’s and Ferrari’s come with or have a DCT as an option.*
*
2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs
OEM DiaQueen SST fluid
SSP trans Deep Sump
SSP Front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP (cleaned up by Bryan)
Green relay (yeah that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel pump relay!)

kmart888
01-08-2011, 01:39 PM
Duplicate

FUEL
01-08-2011, 03:36 PM
Get me off? lol hardly* :D... but carry on... sarcasm is obviously wasted on you.* O0

:crazy2:

Departed
01-08-2011, 04:50 PM
All I can say is that I'm fking glad I have a 5 speed and less headaches then dealing with a foo foo tranny that's sooo fkig temperamental. Fk! Talk about being expensive and sensitive loll
10k damn!


The SST is not all that temperamental, in fact I would hazard a guess that they are stronger than the 5 speed. There are folks out there pulling over 500hp and 400lbft without incident. Of the few failures that have been reported on the forums only one that I know of was mechanical in nature,*the few others failed from an electronic failure inside the TCU (not a serviceable item at the moment) and almost all of these were using an unapproved aftermarket fluid as was I, unfortunately Mitsu will reject the warrantee coverage if it is discovered and this is an expensive piece!

For me it is the SST is the car, it is what makes it unique and the reason I love this car! I own two other sports cars with manual boxes, hell the S2000 has one of the slickest 6 speeds ever conceived by man and I love to drive it. But it when it comes down to which car to take, DD or weekends, I almost always choose the MR, it is by far more fun to drive; I actually have more control over the way I use the power (in manual “sport” mode) than with a manual and on the track “S-Sport” mode in auto is the shit! I guess that is why M3’s, GTR’s and Ferrari’s come with or have a DCT as an option.*
*
2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs
OEM DiaQueen SST fluid
SSP trans Deep Sump
SSP Front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP (cleaned up by Bryan)
Green relay (yeah that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel pump relay!)


You do know ETS launches their 800whp drag car repeatedly on the 5 speed right? Has anyone even come close to that power level on the SST, let alone launched it repeatedly at that power? I don't know how you can think its stronger since it has not been tested at the HP levels of the 5 speed. Also, I believe the M3's, GTR's and Ferrari’s that have them are a little bit stronger then the one in the Evo (correct me if I am wrong but I believe I read that somewhere).

No matter what you think, it is FAR more temperamental then the 5 speed and more can go wrong with it. If you exceed a certain torque it freaks out, you have to upgrade the clutch packs to get to 500whp etc. Granted the 5 speed diff pins in the trans case would be much better with an upgrade but its pretty bulletproof once those are done.

Good luck with your SST transmission and sorry if my post made me sound like a jackass, I did not mean it in that way. Take care and good luck!

kandyredcoi
01-08-2011, 05:36 PM
i also owned my fair share of manual and flappy paddle cars, for LA traffic and how much i drive ill take the SST all day long...i agree that my MR is one of theeee best car ive owned...and ive owned quite a few

i also agree that most the failures out there are from the TCU but i wouldnt go as far as saying that its stronger than a 5spd

plus the info about changing your fluids early after break-in is quite accurate, although its not on the service manual, it should be done, heard a lot of horror stories regarding this from ferrari mastertechs and even Lotus recommends it after break-in

with that in mind i will be doing my sst service on my next oil change...thanks

GokuSSJ4
01-08-2011, 10:40 PM
^^^*
As great as the new tranny might make u feel, it has it down falls!
You've experience one of them already, n other might as well for the lack of knowledge or becoming a pioneer in this beloved industry.
Replacing a 10k tranny at such an early age is painful, no matter if you have the income or xover under warranty due to the different circumstances each individual might face due to their choices.
Glad u r seeing things in a positive manner and posting in the peanut gallery to inform other members and owners in order for them not to make the same mistake as you have done.*
Kudos to you for the acknowledgement it took in your behalf to admit you were at fault for choosing the wrong product against what the manufacture advises to use.
Is never easy to deal with something as I call it temperamental" for the lack of word since it end it up costing u a brand new tranny.
Some of us like to keep things simple" on a performance vehicle; as is, there's too many things that can go wrong :|

kmart888
01-09-2011, 05:04 PM
^^^**
As great as the new tranny might make u feel, it has it down falls!*
You've experience one of them already, n other might as well for the lack of knowledge or becoming a pioneer in this beloved industry.*
Replacing a 10k tranny at such an early age is painful, no matter if you have the income or xover under warranty due to the different circumstances each individual might face due to their choices.*
Glad u r seeing things in a positive manner and posting in the peanut gallery to inform other members and owners in order for them not to make the same mistake as you have done. *
Kudos to you for the acknowledgement it took in your behalf to admit you were at fault for choosing the wrong product against what the manufacture advises to use. *
Is never easy to deal with something as I call it temperamental" for the lack of word since it end it up costing u a brand new tranny. *
Some of us like to keep things simple" on a performance vehicle; as is, there's too many things that can go wrong :|*

I appreciate your kind words and understanding, thank you. We are way off topic but *"it 's my thread and I can do what I want to" (sung to the tune of "it's my party..."):

Simple performance vehicle? The Evo X is not simple, never will be. Simple is my Monster Miata, ford ohv V8, distributer and coil ignition, mechanical LSD, manual steering, etc. There is a huge amount of electronics in the Evo X drive train can go wrong, cam timing, knock sensors, electronically controlled transfer case, electronic differential, sequential injection, two narrow band o2 sensors, ecu controlling it all, a huge amount of electronics, much of it in very limited production, any of which can break due some obscure simple part and can be very expensive to diagnose and fix. It is in fact amazing to me that the Evo is as reliable as it is! Mitsubishi is to be congratulated on that front! IMHO the SST fits in very well with character an intention of the Evo X, an electronic marvel using the latest technology to produce a performance car in the guise of a 4 door sedan. Btw, the Monster Miata and the modified Evo X MR are quite competitive on a roads coarse; the Miata is fun on the street and I love the sound of the american V8 but, on the street anyway, the MR-T wins hands down in every category I can think of, including reliability and cost to maintain! If it were not fit the available SST I would have bought (blasphemy) a 2010 WRX.

Mike W
01-10-2011, 12:02 AM
So wait, you paid for a new SST tranny? Where is the old one? I want to take it apart and see what makes it work. I so got in trouble for that (with the lawnmower) when I was 12. What happened to the old tranny? Can I have it? Gotta be something useful in it.

Mike W

kandyredcoi
01-10-2011, 12:09 AM
yea someone needs to disect that thing and figure out how to make it better overall

HMatt
01-10-2011, 01:11 AM
So wait... nobody can get the sensors or the TCU's inside of it without getting a whole new tranny? Does anyone else smell the BS?

kandyredcoi
01-10-2011, 01:16 AM
yea man, thats one of the issues, no replacement parts for anything that is related to the sst trans, plus the fact that it shows slippage for things north of 320ftlbs of torque
faulty solenoids and temp sensors

not all, but id hate to be the guy that got the faulty one and would have to pay $10k for a new trans :(

HMatt
01-10-2011, 01:27 AM
^ok... Getrag (or some shit like that) makes this thing, right? And they make these things for other cars too, right?

What's cheaper and easier? To make all new and different sensors and each tranny? or to use some of the same parts? I'm willing to bet that the temp sensor in the mitsu is the same one in the VW... Only problem is we kinda need to take stuff apart to find out... or if anyone has a contact at that company... Someone needs to make friends with those people and order a bunch of sensors and TCU's... If you could get a sensor for $300, people would buy it for $1000 because it's cheaper than 10K! They'd make a killing!

blkside
01-10-2011, 01:50 AM
I don't think getrag makes it... When I sat at that mod meeting a few years ago they admitted the company that was making it was unfamiliar with these types of tranny... Getrag has been around a minute or 6

kandyredcoi
01-10-2011, 02:02 AM
lol i thought it was confirmed that it was in fact getrag...and yes they make the trans for a few diff cars, sme even more powerful than the evos...but im not sure if those cars have parts readily available as well and if they also require only a certain type of fluid in order to not void the warranty

this is all a big mess, and as an owner of said trans, i am going to take so e precautionary steps to try and prolong the trannys life with out any issues

HMatt
01-10-2011, 02:03 AM
I don't think getrag makes it... When I sat at that mod meeting a few years ago they admitted the company that was making it was unfamiliar with these types of tranny... Getrag has been around a minute or 6


OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... Hmmm.... That just raises more questions....

kandyredcoi
01-10-2011, 02:20 AM
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8960

blkside
01-10-2011, 02:40 AM
Ok well I'm basing it of MMNA meeting I attended and it was asked who made the tranny and they wouldn't give the name but finally admitted it was the companies first attempt at these trannys but other projects had gone well... Doesn't sound like a large company like getrag to me...

Coi that thread was like 15 pages... I'm black, that's too much reading...

kandyredcoi
01-10-2011, 02:43 AM
^lol, just more sst drama, im pretty sure its Getrag tho ???

FUEL
01-10-2011, 03:21 AM
Maybe someone should make an inquiry to the Getrag company ....just ask if they make the thing or not?

blkside
01-10-2011, 03:24 AM
It could... Shouldn't your ass be asleep... I don't have getrag number on speed dial...

I made 2 decisions... It's gonna be a manual cause who the fuck buys an automatic sport sedan and getting it loaded cause aftermarket electronics and lights and aero rarely fit as well as oem...

FUEL
01-10-2011, 03:29 AM
I have horrible insomnia :buck2:

Well get the # and call them!

Umm yeah the whole "Automatic" Evo doesn't fly well with me either.... It's better suited to the Evolander. :D

HMatt
01-10-2011, 03:55 AM
http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8960


^Just read that entire thread... Thanks for giving me something to do for a while.

Man... I really want a RA sportback, but I really don't want to deal with the damn transmission... Mainly because I will most likely want to keep it for a while, even after the warranty expires and I don't want to have the get an entire new transmission if it breaks...

Maybe I'll just buy an old galant vr-4 *and mod the crap out of it for a dd... Kick it old school... haha



Umm yeah the whole "Automatic" Evo doesn't fly well with me either.... It's better suited to the Evolander. :D


They actually did make an automatic evo... It was a version of the evo 7 and not imported to the states. It had like 20 less hp, a flat hood (no vent), and a "plusher" interior. Think of it like a beta version of what the MR-T is today.

FUEL
01-10-2011, 06:02 AM
^ The "automatic" Evo VII... I think it was the GT-A or something like that:......* Still wish I could have an Evo IX wagon ...... Would really love to have one of those!* :smitten:

blkside
01-10-2011, 08:53 AM
Yeah Ive always wanted that 9 wagon that was in the pic of that SE at he auto salon

HMatt
01-10-2011, 09:21 AM
Ok well I'm basing it of MMNA meeting I attended and it was asked who made the tranny and they wouldn't give the name but finally admitted it was the companies first attempt at these trannys but other projects had gone well... Doesn't sound like a large company like getrag to me...


First attempt at THESE trannys... That CAN mean that this is the first transverse-mounted one that they've made. And from what I've seen, that does fit Getrag's description.

kmart888
01-10-2011, 09:22 AM
So wait, you paid for a new SST tranny? Where is the old one? I want to take it apart and see what makes it work. I so got in trouble for that (with the lawnmower) when I was 12. What happened to the old tranny? Can I have it? Gotta be something useful in it.

Mike W

The box is mechanically sound just the stupid fluid temp sensor is fried, Martin Dunnon of Willall say's he has fixed several with this exact failure and will produce a kit so others can fix it but I am not holding my breath, that was four months ago. The box is Sonoma just now but I have asked WORKS to ship it to Jon down here and see if we could either figure out a fix or install Martins kit when (if) available.

kmart888
01-10-2011, 09:24 AM
yea someone needs to disect that thing and figure out how to make it better overall
SSP is doing just that, there is a thread with photo's on the other forum(s)

kmart888
01-10-2011, 09:39 AM
... that it shows slippage for things north of 320ftlbs of torque

Myth, Getrag certifies it to 400 and a few folk have exceeded that without issue. A few have reported slippage but it a almost always some some easily fixed electronic problem that was mis-diagnosed.


...faulty solenoids and temp sensors...

Only for those who, like me, have used unapproved fluid in it.

kandyredcoi
01-10-2011, 12:24 PM
so how do you fix the slippage? and no matter how u put it, being limited to only 1 type of fluid or your tranny will break is damn pathetic

wagon evo ftw!

and the mr evos lapped faster then gsr evos on numerous tests....they attributed the quicker lap times to the sst trans...unless the mr tranny breaks lol

blkside
01-10-2011, 12:49 PM
They attribute the faster times to their Whittier driving cause yeah it may be marginally faster but I've seen some lap times 4 secs faster. No fucking way... And what do the sst guys do for a comparison of kidded cars of say 500hp... Oh wait you can't right now... Unless more money is wasted on top of the overpriced car ....

kmart888
01-10-2011, 12:59 PM
so how do you fix the slippage? and no matter how u put it, being limited to only 1 type of fluid or your tranny will break is damn pathetic

wagon evo ftw!

and the mr evos lapped faster then gsr evos on numerous tests....they attributed the quicker lap times to the sst trans...unless the mr tranny breaks lol
What slippage? What some folk reported as slippage was easily tuned out, either by flashing the ecu on a modded car or by the driver learning how the tcu works and driving the car in a predictable manner so as to not initiate a limp mode (tcu opening the clutch pack to "protect" the box). I have yet to see more than one box that had OEM clutch packs that showed excessive wear or signs of slippage when the were replaced.

You can use Volvo (identical gearbox to the Lancer) SSTF or wait until some one produces an aftermarket fluid that meets Getrag specs. Is it unreasonable to ask the owner to use a fluid that meets the manufactures specifications before honoring the warrantee? * *

Why so much hate on the SST and those who drive one. I have not been criticizing the 5 speed nor those who prefer a FULLY manual box, just pointing out all the misinformation spread by said haters so lurkers can make an informed decision on auto purchase.

kandyredcoi
01-10-2011, 01:01 PM
^no hate just trying to get more info, i actually like the sst, just dont want it to break prematurely

tim, plus the more you mod the more variances will be and would not make for an accurate comparison

dont get me wrong tho id love to push 500hp, but my evo sees more street use than track use so the sst works for ME not planning on getting more than 400hp if that lol

Mike W
01-10-2011, 05:33 PM
It may be that the gears are rated at 400 ft lbs of torque. But the clutches will slip with much less. People bitch about the whole clutch and gearbox as an assembly but remember they are two different parts with upgrades available to the clutches. What you read on forums is rarely the full truth. And remember, if you can hold just 300 ft lbs of torque at 7500 rpm, that is over 500 whp.

Mike W

kmart888
01-11-2011, 12:31 AM
It may be that the gears are rated at 400 ft lbs of torque. But the clutches will slip with much less. People bitch about the whole clutch and gearbox as an assembly but remember they are two different parts with upgrades available to the clutches. What you read on forums is rarely the full truth. And remember, if you can hold just 300 ft lbs of torque at 7500 rpm, that is over 500 whp.*

Mike W





Getrag rates the OEM clutch packs at 400 ft lbs, Mitsubishi limits it to around 320 through software, in fact Getrag will claim the OEM clutches are superior to those aftermaket kits advertised at 500lbft and 600lbft, the actual gears will probably take much more though I have not been given a number on that.

kandyredcoi
01-11-2011, 12:41 AM
how do you drive the car with out initiating a limp mode?

blkside
01-11-2011, 12:44 AM
Buy a GSR....'lol

kmart888
01-11-2011, 12:50 AM
^no hate just trying to get more info, i actually like the sst, just dont want it to break prematurely

tim, plus the more you mod the more variances will be and would not make for an accurate comparison

dont get me wrong tho id love to push 500hp, but my evo sees more street use than track use so the sst works for ME not planning on getting more than 400hp if that lol
The comment about haters was not directed at you, but a general observation about the last several pages in this thread. I am getting a bit defensive I guess. Many 5 speed proponents continue spread rumors and misinformation about the SST and they mock the intelligence of those who chose a different option package than they would, I did not mean to include you in that group

blkside
01-11-2011, 12:56 AM
I think he means me Coi. I'm not mad at sst owners but I do find it amusing to choose an unfounded platform for extreme measures. Not you but many on evom. I didn't spread misinfoation but exactly what MMNA executives told the few of us that were in the design Q&A in 2007.

HMatt
01-11-2011, 12:59 AM
Getrag rates the OEM clutch packs at 400 ft lbs, Mitsubishi limits it to around 320 through software, in fact Getrag will claim the OEM clutches are superior to those aftermaket kits advertised at 500lbft and 600lbft, the actual gears will probably take much more though I have not been given a number on that.


Oh really? Through software in the TCU or ECU?

kmart888
01-11-2011, 01:56 AM
Duplicate

kmart888
01-11-2011, 02:15 AM
Getrag rates the OEM clutch packs at 400 ft lbs, Mitsubishi limits it to around 320 through software, in fact Getrag will claim the OEM clutches are superior to those aftermaket kits advertised at 500lbft and 600lbft, the actual gears will probably take much more though I have not been given a number on that.


Oh really? Through software in the TCU or ECU?
Ok I got caught out on this one, the way I understand it is the TCU limits the torque by initiating limp mode or other undesired shifting behavior based on the load and other signals being sent to it by the ECU, I think, but here I am out of my realm of understanding. does it really mater? A lot has been done to mitigate this limit by tuning the ECU but more could be accomplished when someone cracks the TCU.

kmart888
01-11-2011, 02:23 AM
I think he means me Coi. I'm not mad at sst owners but I do find it amusing to choose an unfounded platform for extreme measures. Not you but many on evom. I didn't spread misinfoation but exactly what MMNA executives told the few of us that were in the design Q&A in 2007.
Amusing? Makes you feel better to laugh at others does it?

Mike W
01-11-2011, 03:12 AM
Tim (blkside) you drove my 300whp RalliArt @ Autoclub Speedway in November. What is your impression of how the tranny works when it is working and doing its thing?

Mike W

blkside
01-11-2011, 09:13 AM
I'm not laughing at anyone, but I'm amused at how many complain when what they want to work doesn't. Like the morons pushing 490hp on a stock 4b11 and complain when it goes.... Maybe I think stupid people are amusing.

I drove the RRE shop ralliart which is basically a beefed up ten and loved the car and the shifting. However with real racing the ralliart is overwhelmed and needs some serious upgrades such as clutch packs and brakes. But I didn't go into it expecting a Porsche race car. People expect too much out of this car to make up for their shortcomings.

I love the Evo in all of it's configurations but think some are suited for tasks better than others.

kmart888
01-11-2011, 11:40 AM
I'm not laughing at anyone, but I'm amused at how many complain when what they want to work doesn't. Like the morons pushing 490hp on a stock 4b11 and complain when it goes.... Maybe I think stupid people are amusing.

I drove the RRE shop ralliart which is basically a beefed up ten and loved the car and the shifting. However with real racing the ralliart is overwhelmed and needs some serious upgrades such as clutch packs and brakes. But I didn't go into it expecting a Porsche race car. People expect too much out of this car to make up for their shortcomings.

I love the Evo in all of it's configurations but think some are suited for tasks better than others.

Now we are getting somewhere, as in usefull information. What specifically did you not like about the clutch action on the track? Was it slipping? If so are you certain it was a mechanical failure of the clutch not being able to hold the power/torque and not some software anomaly (folks have reported slipping and it turned out to be a bad MAF, causing shifting glitches,* weird but true)? How much torque/power is Mike’s Ralliart producing* (Dynopack I assume).

I have never tracked my MR, just numerous drag strip days in the low 12’s (lots of “Launch Control” launches in the .75 second 60’ range) without mechanical issue. I will put more* stress on the gearbox when I get an E85 tune for the new BBX, stay tuned.* I did get to flog the shit out one of Jim Russell’s MR’s at Sears Point (Infineon Raceway).* Jim had about* 5 MR’s there with 5-10k of strictly race track miles by novice drivers on the stock SST’s* and never one issue, mechanical or TCU, not even an overheat! All of the students preferred the SST on the track over the GSR’s Jim also had available on the day I was there. Agreed these cars had stock HP and TQ and were on crappy Conti tires and stock suspension. The only problems I have read about (on the track) is with that those of us who have modded their cars tend to overheat the SST fluid and initiate full limp mode after 15 to 20 min of abuse, hence the deepsump and extra cooler on mine.

2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs
OEM DiaQueen SST fluid
SSP trans Deep Sump
SSP Front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP (cleaned up by Bryan)
Green relay (yeah that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel pump relay!)

Mike W
01-11-2011, 11:44 AM
The RRE RalliArt has dual upgraded coolers and 320 ft lbs of torque. Tim was giving rides with 1-2 passengers for 30 minute sessions.

Mike W

kmart888
01-11-2011, 11:49 AM
The RRE RalliArt has dual upgraded coolers and 320 ft lbs of torque. Tim was giving rides with 1-2 passengers for 30 minute sessions.

Mike W

Sounds like fun, wish I was there!

sascm
09-14-2012, 10:12 AM
I would like to say that "Incompetence " is no longer present and Glendale Mitsubishi. They have an Advisor there who has worked at South Coast for years and is well versed with the Evo's. So if your on that side of town as for Chris W. in service. If he doesn't know the answer he'll get it for you. I've dealt with him in the past and he's good.

evolved13
05-08-2013, 04:34 PM
From an old man who barely knows which end of a wrench to use---whether you drain the coolers or remove one, two or a gazillion plugs- don't you put in the exact amount you drain out??? Or am I missing somethin?

EvolutionXtacy
05-08-2013, 04:58 PM
From an old man who barely knows which end of a wrench to use---whether you drain the coolers or remove one, two or a gazillion plugs- don't you put in the exact amount you drain out??? Or am I missing somethin?

god damn necromancer..