Is there a way to make the evo x flex fuel compatable.

[riceball777]

My all time favorite mod I have ever done to any of my cars is making my turbo s2000 flex fuel compatable with the aem ems series 2. Boost and timing is all automatically adjusted and is dependent on the %of ethanol in the tank. My s2000 makes 442whp on 91 octane and 650whp on e85. It will make anything in between wether I run E40 or e60. No more switching maps or draining tanks of pump gas or e85 to switch fuels.


I want this for the evo x.l as I plan to buy an evo x soon.


I see that aem does not make an ems for the evo x. Is this correct? Is that a way to make the stock ecu flex fuel or are there any other after market ecu's that are flex fuel compatable?




Here's a pic of my s2000 after I just pumped 6 gallons of 91octane into my take of e85.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/riceball777/car/s2000/7C8CD58D-FCA8-4056-B786-C5F17F7B5D8E_zpsxmqkicms.jpg (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/riceball777/media/car/s2000/7C8CD58D-FCA8-4056-B786-C5F17F7B5D8E_zpsxmqkicms.jpg.html)

[Mike W]

Cash makes anything happen. Guys that run stand alone ECUs on a CAN bus car will typically piggyback it in along with the stock ECU. You can let the stock ECU run the dash and the throttle body if you want. Or pay cash to get the stand alone ECU to run the throttle body. Or switch to a throttle cable old school style. It all depends on what dash you run and if little yellow lights freak you out. Smoggability would be a big issue for you if smoggability is a big issue for you. I saw a video the other day on Youtube with a Smart car with a LS swapped into the back of it. Yes, if there is a will there is a way. Seems like a lot of money to pay though to be able to just pump in anything. Like, for the $6k it would cost, I'd prolly just deal with all one or all the other.

Mike W

[riceball777]

So in other words I'm guessing the answer is NO there's no aftermarket ecu that is flex fuel compatable for the evo x. That really sucks as I really feel flex fuel is one of the best mods for a turbo car.

[Mike W]

E-85 is one of the best mods for any turbo car.

Full flex fuel to where you can be lazy and run whatevers is a convenience.

There is no aftermarket ECU that is plug and play for the EVO X, flex fuel or not flex fuel. The demand just isnt there for the complexity that is involved in keeping the CAN bus system happy. The stock ECU being so hacked and powerful, as an aftermarket ECU manufacturer you would be retarded to invest the time and money into a plug and play ECU for the EVO X.

Mike W

[kada85]

mike dropping knowledge bombs as always.

[jiGGypiGGy]

you can have two maps on a stock ecu right? and switch them with your cruise, one hi-low boost. you just have to have empty tanks when your switch right?

[Mike W]

Yes, all one or all the other. You can even have up to 9 maps to switch between.

Riceball wants to just add and mix whatever is available at the time and have the ECU just figure it out. That is true "Flex Fuel"

Mike W

[RC10EVOX]

It's funny how often people think Flex Fuel means just running E85, but have no understanding where the term originated from. lol

[riceball777]

Aem makes the ems for the evo 8 and evo 9. Why wouldn't they make it for the evo10?

[Macky]

my guess is the 4G63 has a much bigger market compared to the 4B11. the 4B11 has only been in service since 2008 on the Evo X and Ralliart, whereas the 4G63 has been in service since 1992-2007, and on several platforms (Galant VR4, Eclipse/DSM twins, Evo I-IX).

[Apex Hunter]

Aem makes the ems for the evo 8 and evo 9. Why wouldn't they make it for the evo10?


The demand just isnt there for the complexity that is involved in keeping the CAN bus system happy. The stock ECU being so hacked and powerful, as an aftermarket ECU manufacturer you would be retarded to invest the time and money into a plug and play ECU for the EVO X.

Mike W

I think Mike nailed it.

[evoxsteez]

If it was available, I'm sure MOST people tuning on E85 would buy a flex fuel ECU. I know I would buy it, just makes things easier for us lazy people. Lol :laugh:

[Mike W]

The AEM Infinity ECU is $2200 + a harness that would have to be purchased. The ethanol sensor setup adds more. Tuning is more like $1k. AEM looked at all the money they lost on the AEM Series 2 development for the EVO 8 and 9 and then looked at what the stock EVO X ECU can do for free and what the Tephra V2 can do for $50 and then looked at what would have to happen to do all the CAN bus integration (ACD, AYC, ABS, Traction Control, dash communication, ETAS ECU, fly by wire throttle body...) and went..."meh" They moved on to cars with owners that spend money. And mostly went towards applications for cars with owners that spend money and dont have other options. I dont know that they did a study weighted for lazy EVO X owners that would pay $4k for an ECU plus tuning just to be able to pump what evers ratios of gas and E85 into the tank. I'll have to go back and axe.

Mike W

[riceball777]

Yeah that makes sense. Aem would probably loose lots of money on an ecu for the evo 10 since everyone just always runs the stick ecu. Is it every going to be possible to inter grate flex fuel into the stock ecu?

When the aem series 2 came out I got it new for $1200 for my s2000. Flex fuel sensor is only less tha $100. For a turbo s2000 that must purchase a stand alone ems there is added cost besides the sub $100 flex fuel sensor. Tuning does not cost any more than any other times you would normally get a dual map tune. I normally pay about $400-$500 for flex fuel tuning.

Since e85 is very limited in so cal I would be more than happy to buy a $1400 aem series 2 for the evo 10 if they made it. Flex fuel realy is the greatest thing in a high powered turbo car.

[Mike W]

So AEM Series 2 you would be cool with no functioning dash and gauges and no ECU communications with the ACD, AYC, ABS, A/C, traction control and anti theft systems? You would hook up fan control on your own. These $400-$500 dual map standalone flex fuel tunes would also give you a fully functioning fly by wire throttle control?

Mike W

[riceball777]

So AEM Series 2 you would be cool with no functioning dash and gauges and no ECU communications with the ACD, AYC, ABS, A/C, traction control and anti theft systems? You would hook up fan control on your own. These $400-$500 dual map standalone flex fuel tunes would also give you a fully functioning fly by wire throttle control?

Mike W

If aem came out with a series 2 ems for the evo 10 im sure it would countrol the dash and gauges, ac system and it controls the cooling fans, i know my series 2 ems for my s2000 does. Are you saying the aem series 2 does not do this for other cars?? that does not make any sense to me. I did loose the anti theft emobolizer when i went with an aem ems with my s2000. I'm not sure what you mean by fully functioning fly by wire throttle control?

Here is my s2000 with my flex fuel setup. if your intrested

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/1091391-riceball777-f24-stroker-turbo-motor-flex-fuel-build/

[jiGGypiGGy]

its voodoo maagics!!!!!

[evildoesit]

I'm not sure what you mean by fully functioning fly by wire throttle control?


Your S2k has a throttle cable right? The Evo is drive by wire. I guess it is also controlled by the ECU. AEM didn't have to worry about that for the S2k.

[Apex Hunter]

If aem came out with a series 2 ems for the evo 10 im sure it would countrol the dash and gauges, ac system and it controls the cooling fans, i know my series 2 ems for my s2000 does. Are you saying the aem series 2 does not do this for other cars?? that does not make any sense to me. I did loose the anti theft emobolizer when i went with an aem ems with my s2000. I'm not sure what you mean by fully functioning fly by wire throttle control?

Here is my s2000 with my flex fuel setup. if your intrested

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/1091391-riceball777-f24-stroker-turbo-motor-flex-fuel-build/

2000-05 s2k is not CAN BUS like the Evo x. That is the big difference. CAN BUS introduces a whole different level of complexity.

[butters149]

i heard 5150 was working on a flex fuel solution and should be ready soon.

[Macky]

5150 can. I saw a post from them today.

[Jcherb686]

I don't want to sound rude but that's the way its going to sound. You keep saying my s2k had this or my s2k had that...bro an Evo isn't an s2k. While I appreciate quality builds out of any car, its apples and oranges. An s2k isn't even on the same page as the Evo, let alone the same book.

When you get you Evo, try out a dual map....because living in SoCal you're limited as it is on gas variety; you would end up just running 91oct 95% of the time.

[evo_jfa]

5150 can. I saw a post from them today.
Where is the post at macky? Facebook, Evoxforums?

[Macky]

Jon posted this on FB today with the caption : Another stock ecu evo x ‪#‎flexfuel‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/flexfuel?source=feed_text) car done with #flexconverter.com (http://flexconverter.com/)hardware and 5150 Racing custom lines and fittings

[Jcherb686]

What's the long term advantages/disadvantages? Wont this just cause a degradation of your internals over longer periods of time?

[Macky]

I am not sure. Might be a good question to ask the tuners.

[evo_jfa]

Thanks Macky, I review my fb feeds... Just wondering how it's done. I know CAN systems has different approach about auto adjust them selfs, but I wonder if Jon could hack the entire ECU logic and include another additional instructions or substitute Mitsubishi logic to lead the flexfuel sensor and adjust into different areas.. I mean my curious is more into the geek part of understand the different between new custom tune... my recognition to Jon to accomplish this milestone.

[Macky]

Yeah when I saw the notification this am, this thread immediately popped into my mind. I think that opens up a lot of possibilities for the 4B11T. Great job by 5150!

[Mike W]

Is it a flex fuel sensor display kit installed? Or is the car actually tuned to be able to use any mix of 91 and E-85?

Actually Tephra is working on full flex fuel option for the EVO X currently.

Mike W

[evo_jfa]

seems to be a flexfuel sensor (maybe GM flexfuel sensor) and the ECU adjust the tune automatically. Maybe Jon completed what currently Tephra is going or Tephra completed the project and Jon collaborate with him. Not sure how shops and tuners work together. But finally something new in the Evo X community.

[zheka]

I only got one question: why?

[Jcherb686]

It seems like laziness. Because it sure isn't for money saving purposes when I comes to fuel prices.

[Apex Hunter]

Because it's f*cking awesome. Use whatever ratio of gasoline and ethanol. E10, E40, E69, E3.14, Ewhateverthefuckyouwant, oh, and E85 and E98 of course. :)

The part that sucks is taking the time (or spending the $$$$) to set it up properly. But when you're done, the ECU will be able to recalibrate its maps on the fly based off whatever ratio you are currently using.

Here's a good video of Lucas English demonstrating the point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjPZbwfItVQ

[zheka]

There is no end to perfection.

[AlphaKennyBody]

Yes we can do Flex Fuel on Evo X =) Any mixture true FLEX FUEL ... it's just not a Ethanol Display Unit.

Email us at [email protected] so we can set you up with an appointment to get you squared away.

[evo_jfa]

Yes we can do Flex Fuel on Evo X =) Any mixture true FLEX FUEL ... it's just not a Ethanol Display Unit.

Email us at [email protected] so we can set you up with an appointment to get you squared away.

Ralphy, is it any pre-requirement to have the car ready?
I know most of the information clarified by email, but it's going to be valuable to have a overview description just to have a better understanding about this upgrade, benefits and additional considerations.

[AlphaKennyBody]

Ralphy, is it any pre-requirement to have the car ready?
I know most of the information clarified by email, but it's going to be valuable to have a overview description just to have a better understanding about this upgrade, benefits and additional considerations.

Only thing you need to run Flex Fuel is of course your basic E85 Components. Injectors, Pump, 3 Port and some sort of HFC/TP and of course our FF Kit. We have done a handful of Flex Fuel Evo X's now and soon my personal X will be converted to Flex Fuel. It's pretty awesome on how quick the adjustments are made when the content changes. With our FF Kits, they have a Bluetooth unit that you get. You would DL a app and you'll be able to see live fuel temps and E85 % Level.

With that being said, it's pretty neat to know that even when you think you drained the tank of 91 and top off with E85... It's not even close to E85 lol. I dont want to know what it's life from E85 drain for 91 Pump. We'll find out that shortly.

[AlphaKennyBody]

The TRUE benefit for a Flex Fuel kit isn't about "power" as that doesn't change.

It's for really just a convenience factor of not having to worry how much fuel is in the car when pumping either E85 or 91. You no longer have to stress about running the car completely empty before switching maps. You can be at a half tank and just fill up on either 91 or E85.

Granted it still acts as a E85 tune if it's strictly E85 in it. The Ecu will know the changes of the content and adjust accordingly.

With Tephra V3, you no longer switch maps.... it's already done and set for you. Just get tuned..... and enjoy the car.

[theycallmebruce]

Will the Flex Fuel Kit work on EVO X MR as well?

[Stanhernandez]

The TRUE benefit for a Flex Fuel kit isn't about "power" as that doesn't change.

It's for really just a convenience factor of not having to worry how much fuel is in the car when pumping either E85 or 91. You no longer have to stress about running the car completely empty before switching maps. You can be at a half tank and just fill up on either 91 or E85.

Granted it still acts as a E85 tune if it's strictly E85 in it. The Ecu will know the changes of the content and adjust accordingly.

With Tephra V3, you no longer switch maps.... it's already done and set for you. Just get tuned..... and enjoy the car.

Will this kit include Jon's caramel special?! :2funny:

[AlphaKennyBody]

Will the Flex Fuel Kit work on EVO X MR as well?

Yes sir. Works for the MR as well =)


Will this kit include Jon's caramel special?! :2funny:

Only if you don't stare into the camera when you're on the couch.

[riceball777]

I only got one question: why?

Becuase flex fuel is the best mod ever to any high power turbo car that's gets driven a good amount on the street. Amagine a built evo make 700+whp. This can only be done on e85 the same car probable only makes 450whp on 91 octane. E85 station are rare here in so cal plus e85 only nets about 13 mpg and about 150 miles per tank. You cannot confertably drive this e85 evo because you will always be in fear of running out of e85. If it was flex fuel you can just fill the take with 91 octane and the ethonol content will drop and the ecu will automatically drop timing and drop boost depending on ethonol content.

This is simply is the best mod for a built high horsepower turbo car that make 200-400 more hp on e85 compared to 91octane.

[bellacotim]

The question is, will tuners make linear or nonlinear interpolation maps between base and alt1 maps... and how to address the 1, 2, 3, 4 transfer functions. The flex part could put a lot more work on the tuner since who's gonna dyno all the intermediate ratios. Or they tune the two extremes and send you on your way.

[jiGGypiGGy]

Jon posted this on FB today with the caption : Another stock ecu evo x ‪#‎flexfuel‬ (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/flexfuel?source=feed_text) car done with #flexconverter.com (http://flexconverter.com/)hardware and 5150 Racing custom lines and fittings





spoke with ralph, for a minute says its about $1000 for the work, if you are already running e85. if your just 91 you will need to buy all the stuff you would need for e85 along with the $1000 for the new flex system. there is and android app that reads this data Via Bluetooth connector guessing thought the ECU port.

ralph was confident, and said they ran things out, even unplugged the sensor while the engine was running.

this is something we all have wanted, I think I'm gonna guinea pig and get it done. but the rule is my have to buy my wife something of equal or greater value lol.....

[Apex Hunter]

The question is, will tuners make linear or nonlinear interpolation maps between base and alt1 maps... and how to address the 1, 2, 3, 4 transfer functions. The flex part could put a lot more work on the tuner since who's gonna dyno all the intermediate ratios. Or they tune the two extremes and send you on your way.

Did you see this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjPZbwfItVQ He goes through this, with the AEM anyway. There is a blend table, default is linear, but the interpolation is variable. I'm not sure how the Evo X software is setup though, but i can't imagine it being all that different.

[bellacotim]

It's somewhat similar. This is an example.


103762

[bellacotim]

Flex fuel integration using TephraV3 + RAXpatch + Android + Torque + MUTV2

103764

[5150 Racing]

We've done 5 Flex Fuel Evo X so far all with 0 issues MR and GSR all tuned with varing levels of corn in the hole

E10 initially
then i drain it
and add enough for E35 and dial that then E60 then E75-80 is where i end up
Not my first flex fuel rodeo

[bellacotim]

103828
Perhaps a nonlinear approach is in order

[HUSSaLL3R]

Is it a flex fuel sensor display kit installed? Or is the car actually tuned to be able to use any mix of 91 and E-85?

Actually Tephra is working on full flex fuel option for the EVO X currently.

Mike W



When the option is available at RRE I'm ready!!! I haven't pulled the trigger on E85 because the Flex Fuel option wasn't available. My laziness never ceases to amaze me.

[gencos21]

I know it's available at 5150racing now and it's runs good

[HUSSaLL3R]

I know it's available at 5150racing now and it's runs good


I've heard great things about 5150 Racing and many other shops, but RRE has taking care of me since the beginning and I'd like to support them with my loyalty for as long as I own my car.

[Stanhernandez]

When the option is available at RRE I'm ready!!! I haven't pulled the trigger on E85 because the Flex Fuel option wasn't available. My laziness never ceases to amaze me.

You do know that there are 3 stations that provide E85 around Torrance, right? A few in the Long Beach/Anaheim area too...

[HUSSaLL3R]

You do know that there are 3 stations that provide E85 around Torrance, right? A few in the Long Beach/Anaheim area too...

Yes. Getting E85 locally isn't the issue for me...the whole running it down to almost empty thing/ worrying about how much pump gas left worries me (I'm Lazy). Besides if the technology is available why not use it.

[gencos21]

No I hear you man I was a loyal person to mike as well. But as time has gone on with rre. Seems like Rick thinks he is the shit and instead of listing to customers he tells ppl what to do. Lol yea I trust 5150 now more then rre. And they seem to know there stuff alittle better then rre for them being in the game not as long they have sure impressed me.

[jiGGypiGGy]

I drove from SD to get this done, it works. just to fuck with it, when I got home, I put $18 bucks of e85 and $12 of 91, on what was left of 64.4E tank and got 71.3%E. drove it another 15 miles. I plan to do my next refuel all e85 though, then maybe back to 91 just to put it thought its paces.

the Bluetooth app changes in real time, its takes minute to settle on a number. the only thing i don't like is you don't get a lot of printed data, I got a graph with the 91 and E tunes on it. and stickers i asked for.

they should change their name from 5150 to area 51.

my poor evo was worked like a $10 hooker today. spent hours on the dyno, then spent 3 hours in traffic on the way home, then a few pulls from me, for the street this is more then enough.