264/280 cam setup

[GokuSSJ4]

Would running a bigger intake cam and smaller exhaust cam idle more similarly to the other staggered setup? Or does it depend on cam timing and how much overlap you have.

BTW does anyone know the safe maximum tolerances of cam timing adjustment +x degrees to -x degrees?
I want to do an experiment on the dyno without changing the tune but just changing the cam timing and see what happens.

Maybe try different degrees of both retard, then intake advanced (or just not as retarded) and exhaust retarded. Maybe the latter will make buttloads of torque. That would be spiffy.

The rough idle is from the overlap where the intake and exhaust valves are both open at the same time. Less overlap = smoother idle.

not necessary, since you do get the same on other cams with less duration but way more lift then stocks or HKS cams..

[WavMixer]

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

[GokuSSJ4]

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

here is an example, you have the HKS cams 272/272 with 10.2mm/10.8mm lift which dont have a smooth idle..
well the piper cams are the same way (idle issue)
but the specs are different 265/265 (less duration than HKS cams) with 10.8mm/11.5mm lift

[STFU Tuning]

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

here is an example, you have the HKS cams 272/272 with 10.2mm/10.8mm lift which dont have a smooth idle..
well the piper cams are the same way (idle issue)
but the specs are different 265/265 (less duration than HKS cams) with 10.8mm/11.5mm lift

I run HKS 280/280 and the idle is smooth as silk at 1000rpm.... I'm also on stock cam gears, thus running 0/0....

[GokuSSJ4]

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

here is an example, you have the HKS cams 272/272 with 10.2mm/10.8mm lift which dont have a smooth idle..
well the piper cams are the same way (idle issue)
but the specs are different 265/265 (less duration than HKS cams) with 10.8mm/11.5mm lift

I run HKS 280/280 and the idle is smooth as silk at 1000rpm.... I'm also on stock cam gears, thus running 0/0....

BAH! we are giving examples with stock ECU not EMS.. with EMS everything is possible....
BTW
does UTEC have idle control ?

[earlyapex]

BAH! we are giving examples with stock ECU not EMS.. with EMS everything is possible....
BTW
does UTEC have idle control ?

ECU+ has idle control using Idle Smoothing and MAS HZ low clamping.

[WavMixer]

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

here is an example, you have the HKS cams 272/272 with 10.2mm/10.8mm lift which dont have a smooth idle..
well the piper cams are the same way (idle issue)
but the specs are different 265/265 (less duration than HKS cams) with 10.8mm/11.5mm lift

Do both cam manufacturers measure the cams the same way? I don't recall exactly where, but I recall reading that not all cam grinders use the same standard. Regardless of this, you insinuated that people were using the 264/280 combination. I haven't read about this, can you point me in the right direction? This sounds interesting. I would also be interested in how many degrees overlap the stock/HKS/Piper cams have. It would be nice to have all of this information posted in one place.

[gofaster87]

A 264/280 combo would be shit on the low end. Might as well buy a big laggy turbo.

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

here is an example, you have the HKS cams 272/272 with 10.2mm/10.8mm lift which dont have a smooth idle..
well the piper cams are the same way (idle issue)
but the specs are different 265/265 (less duration than HKS cams) with 10.8mm/11.5mm lift

Do both cam manufacturers measure the cams the same way? I don't recall exactly where, but I recall reading that not all cam grinders use the same standard. Regardless of this, you insinuated that people were using the 264/280 combination. I haven't read about this, can you point me in the right direction? This sounds interesting.

[WavMixer]

A 264/280 combo would be shit on the low end. Might as well buy a big laggy turbo.

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

here is an example, you have the HKS cams 272/272 with 10.2mm/10.8mm lift which dont have a smooth idle..
well the piper cams are the same way (idle issue)
but the specs are different 265/265 (less duration than HKS cams) with 10.8mm/11.5mm lift

Do both cam manufacturers measure the cams the same way? I don't recall exactly where, but I recall reading that not all cam grinders use the same standard. Regardless of this, you insinuated that people were using the 264/280 combination. I haven't read about this, can you point me in the right direction? This sounds interesting.

I would think it would be shit on the top end too.

[gofaster87]

It would actually perform much better than what you would see on the bottom end. The combo would have no problem with expending gasses.

[WavMixer]

It would actually perform much better than what you would see on the bottom end. The combo would have no problem with expending gasses.

Yeah, but would seem to be craving more fuel. More fuel+air= more power.

[STFU Tuning]

No, the UTEC does not have idle control.

[gofaster87]

What it puts out and what its capable of are two different things. You are assuming the person putting the combo on there car wants to get full potential out of their car. This is not the case with most evo owners.

It would actually perform much better than what you would see on the bottom end. The combo would have no problem with expending gasses.

Yeah, but would seem to be craving more fuel. More fuel+air= more power.

[GokuSSJ4]

I'll be the first to admit I have much to learl about the 4G63, but in general, on old fashioned push rod motors, my previous statement stands. Most all cam grinders added lift with duration. Along with duration comes overlap. I don't recall any cam grinds that were all lift, no duration.

here is an example, you have the HKS cams 272/272 with 10.2mm/10.8mm lift which dont have a smooth idle..
well the piper cams are the same way (idle issue)
but the specs are different 265/265 (less duration than HKS cams) with 10.8mm/11.5mm lift

Do both cam manufacturers measure the cams the same way? I don't recall exactly where, but I recall reading that not all cam grinders use the same standard. Regardless of this, you insinuated that people were using the 264/280 combination. I haven't read about this, can you point me in the right direction? This sounds interesting. I would also be interested in how many degrees overlap the stock/HKS/Piper cams have. It would be nice to have all of this information posted in one place.

we do have cam specs on the FAQ section.. i know i need to gather more information on that subject... cam over lap and duration .. I'm sure different manufactors measure the cams differently, but you can at least get an idea to what duration and lift are....

[GokuSSJ4]

No, the UTEC does not have idle control.

i can get my hands on a UTEC unit, can you see benefits over the SAFC ? (if cost is not an issue)

[STFU Tuning]

No, the UTEC does not have idle control.

i can get my hands on a UTEC unit, can you see benefits over the SAFC ? (if cost is not an issue)

Yes, you can see benefits. If cost isn't an issue at all, it works pretty well.

[GokuSSJ4]

No, the UTEC does not have idle control.

i can get my hands on a UTEC unit, can you see benefits over the SAFC ? (if cost is not an issue)

Yes, you can see benefits. If cost isn't an issue at all, it works pretty well.

once i have everythign ready.. i will let you know!
you will understand once i have completed my project why i want something better then the SAFC, but not as extreme as the EMS..

[STFU Tuning]

No, the UTEC does not have idle control.

i can get my hands on a UTEC unit, can you see benefits over the SAFC ? (if cost is not an issue)

Yes, you can see benefits. If cost isn't an issue at all, it works pretty well.

once i have everythign ready.. i will let you know!
you will understand once i have completed my project why i want something better then the SAFC, but not as extreme as the EMS..

No problem. It sounds like you have something good planned out and it should be fun. I assume you want something like the UTEC because of OBD2 compliance. I rarely consider the EMS extreme anymore, but thats cause I tune alot of them.

[WavMixer]

What it puts out and what its capable of are two different things. You are assuming the person putting the combo on there car wants to get full potential out of their car. This is not the case with most evo owners.

It would actually perform much better than what you would see on the bottom end. The combo would have no problem with expending gasses.

Yeah, but would seem to be craving more fuel. More fuel+air= more power.

This is what I'm having a hard time understanding. Why would someone go through all this trouble for a very minor gain if any?

[gofaster87]

Darwin, you should know better than to listen to Goku(Tom) and his plans. They always include hair gel and tacotone.

No, the UTEC does not have idle control.

i can get my hands on a UTEC unit, can you see benefits over the SAFC ? (if cost is not an issue)

Yes, you can see benefits. If cost isn't an issue at all, it works pretty well.

once i have everythign ready.. i will let you know!
you will understand once i have completed my project why i want something better then the SAFC, but not as extreme as the EMS..

No problem. It sounds like you have something good planned out and it should be fun. I assume you want something like the UTEC because of OBD2 compliance. I rarely consider the EMS extreme anymore, but thats cause I tune alot of them.