It's cam time!

[WavMixer]

I'm ready to install some cams and I have been through this forum looking at all the posts. What I still don't see is a comparison with different grinds and makers. For example a dyno chart for the same car with stock, 264/264, 264/272, 272/272 results would be nice. Maybe even HKS vs. Buddy Club vs. whatever. I'm not concerned with a lopey idle, I just don't want to sacrafice bottom end for top end. I want my cake and to be able to eat it to. Mind you this car is either on the track or making tofu runs, it's not a daily driver. Mike W or Scot, please chime in here.

[leaveit2bevo]

im pretty sure hks and bc cams make identical power.

[hksevo8]

I would suggest that along with a cam install, you strongly consider valves and springs.* Cams are only good if you do the full package. For a full explanation of what i am saying, check out this months SCC article about aftermarket bolt ons.

[alfredob1]

They were talking about crazy race cams with super long durations and lift. The 264's and 272's have been in use on stock drivetrains for a long while now and have been shown to work well without upgrading valves and springs. Sure it wouldn't hurt but that's another $500 to $1000 dollars to spend.

[trinydex]

scot will tell you hks, those are the only cams proven to work over the test of time and being in his position he cannot with good conscience recommend anything otherwise.

[Blaze]

Grant:

You aren't going to find huge differences between WHP figures. And those that you do, consider the parts and the tune before declaring tha the cam made more or less power.

Many cams may have the same peak duration, but differ greatly in their specs. HKS 272s are not identicle to a JUN 272 which are no where close to a reground 272.

You will have to find and understand the exact specs of each cam your considering if you are really interested in finding what's "best" for your set up.

There are several pages dedicated to understanding cam specs, I'll see if I can find a few and post them up later today.

Good luck.
I look forward to you letting us know your final findings (and why),

Blaze

[Blaze]

The 264's and 272's have been in use on stock drivetrains for a long while now and have been shown to work well without upgrading valves and springs.

That's true with HKS and BCs, however it's not applicable with all cam manufacturers (specifically with the larger durations (272+)

[hksevo8]

I will have to go back and double check the article, but in any case, I still think valves and springs are a good addition to any cam install. *If your gonna do it once, might as well do it right.

[hksevo8]

I can also attest that when HKS builds motors using 272's they usually upgrade the valves and springs too.

[wirespeed]

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=191427

here is a comparison between jun 272s and hks 280...dunno if its the right comparison you're looking since it is on a big turbo and bigger cams but heres a start

[GokuSSJ4]

you have different options. Most people will recommend HKS cams since it doesn't require any upgrades of valvesprings or cam gears in order to achieve best results.
Different manufactores use different cam profiles, lift , lift duration amoung other things. It would be un fair for you to compare Jun vs HKS do to both having the same duration.
Some of the cams that have been tested and shown proof that work very well with the stock turbo are 272/272 .. dyno sheets have been posted (not an evo ) but a 4g63 motor, the difference amoung all the HKS cams.. the best midrange was the 264/272
but the difference amoung 264/272 vs 272/272 was minimum.

now you have others like this one
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...7&page=1&pp=15
this is not a stock car by any means but it shows you that gains can be achieved by switching cams ..
Other brands that you can consider but it is recommended that you upgrade your valvetrain
Tomei 270/270 11.5mm
260/260 11.5 mm
Jun 272/272 10.8mm
crowder cams 280/280 11.0mm

[airforce1]

agree. *My 264/272 were without upgraded valave/springs. *no problems here.

[hksevo8]

guys, guys, guys....I am not saying you will have problems by not upgrading the springs and valves. What I am saying is that you will get better performance with the use of them. COME ON...the engineers at Mistu designed the head to be used with the cams they install, not the ones we buy from the aftermarket.

[WavMixer]

Agreed that upgrading the springs and retainers will be benificial, however I plan to do all those upgrades when the head comes off. I'll replace the head studs, do some porting and try to take advantage of all those mods in one shot when the head is off. For right now, I just wanna replace the cams and maybe gears. Later this year I'll be replacing the turbo and plan to have the head work done prior to turbo upgrade.

This year looks to be a good year for my Evo. New suspension going in next week, cams next week and turbo in a couple of months. EMS is also in the future, hopefully before the end of the year.

[WavMixer]

im pretty sure hks and bc cams make identical power.

Mike W says the same on his website. I'm waiting for a return call from the 4G63 master himself.

[WavMixer]

im pretty sure hks and bc cams make identical power.

Mike W says the same on his website. I'm waiting for a return call from the 4G63 master himself.

then if thatas the case why even ask...

I made this statement in hopes that someone would know of a comparison.

I still don't see is a comparison with different grinds and makers. For example a dyno chart for the same car with stock, 264/264, 264/272, 272/272 results would be nice. Maybe even HKS vs. Buddy Club vs. whatever.

I placed a call to Mike because everyone has an answer... but not to my original question.

[alfredob1]

The 264's and 272's have been in use on stock drivetrains for a long while now and have been shown to work well without upgrading valves and springs.

That's true with HKS and BCs, however it's not applicable with all cam manufacturers (specifically with the larger durations (272+)

Sorry, I should have been more sepcific, I was referring to HKS cams.

[leaveit2bevo]

if your going with a bigger turbo you should go with the 272/272

[AvengeDEvO]

hksevo8 is right about the cams. My buddy just dropped 2k on a full JUN 272/272 upgrade . Its very high in price but they are proven to produce 55 more whp then the hks 280 cams. If you dont belive me call AMS or just look on their website. The kit comes with valve springs, retainers, and a other things that i dont recall.

[WOT]

I just don't want to sacrafice bottom end for top end.

264's

Mind you this car is either on the track or making tofu runs, it's not a daily driver.

280's

I want my cake and to be able to eat it to.

272's

Good luck on the decision

i have extracted some ams data conducted on a 4g63 non-evo engine using HKS cams & put it into an excel graph, the 264's dont give up that much to the 272's, [forum-restricted] & dyno al have also provided/stated similar findings with evo 8's, however you get many people saying that the 272's made more/stronger power over 264's???

pm me your email address & I will send you all the overlays/compares that i have collected if you want them.

Personally, i am of the belief that when peole say that "the 272's pull way harder", this is due to the 272's lose power down low compared to the 264's, so when the engine comes-on-the-cam, the 272's give the impression that they're stronger.

I like the 264's, the 264int/272ex is still very drivable, all on the stock turbo. 35r, then jun 272's.

my 0.02 cents

Once again, Good luck on the decision O0