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Thread: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

  1. #21

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    fair enough.

    as always naji, you knowledge is greatly appreciated.
    toku ni

  2. #22

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    hey naji

    i did 3 logs tonight for you
    5.66 and 12.5
    5.66 and 12.5
    5.07 and 12.5 (after i got gas)
    no changes during the entire log
    no codes. all 3 were freeway driving for around 32 miles.
    toku ni

  3. #23
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    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Quote Originally Posted by toku-one
    hey naji

    i did 3 logs tonight for you
    5.66 and 12.5
    5.66 and 12.5
    5.07 and 12.5 (after i got gas)
    no changes during the entire log
    no codes. all 3 were freeway driving for around 32 miles.
    Your LTFT cruise is maxxed out. It cannot go any hihger that +12.5. With time the car will trigger the system too lean code. You need to get this fixed. I can only imagine how rich the car is running during WOT given the +12.5 and the 015 rom id that your car has.

  4. #24

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    it runs 10.6-9.4 afr between 2700 and 7000 in 4th wot
    toku ni

  5. #25
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    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Today Gear Grinder and I conducted multiple tests on his Evo X. One of the was to confirm, yet again, the impact of LTFTs on the AFR using the famous CARB legal intake.

    We flashed the car back to the stock 020 rom id when the trims were at +6.4%. They went to 7% by the time we logged. We ran two back to back WOT 4th gear runs.

    Then we ran droive the car at a steady 60 mph on the freeway and headed back to the same on-ramp that we did the first two logs. By the time we got to the on ramp, the LTFT was maxxed out @ 12.5%. We did 2 back-to-back WOT logs

    Here are the results, confirming the previous results



    The AFR became richer when the trim went up from +7% to +12.5%. At 6500 rpm the AFR richened up from 11.05:1 to 10.6:1, 0.45 of a point richer. The math supports the findings: the trim rose 5.5%. 11.05x0.055=0.6-11.05=10.45. 10.45:1 is very close to the 10.6:1 that we logged when the trims maxxed out at 12.5%.

    So now it is confirmed that the famous CARB legal intake can max out the LTFT at 12.5% and even trigger a P0171, system too lean code.

  6. #26
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    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    I updated the intake data with the AGP intake. It drifts the trims up to +9.75%. On the EvoX forums some have reported a p0171 with it.

  7. #27

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Do you still want to test Agency Power intake?
    SIGN UP HERE TO BE INVOLVED IN THE EVO WORLD RECORD BREAKING ATTEMPT!!!<br />http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&amp;Itemid=37&amp;topic=8 4099.0

  8. #28

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Very good info Naji !* Maybe what these intakes are missing is a airflow strightener?


  9. #29

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Sorry to bump an old thread... but naji are you still interested in logging an AMS intake? I'll need a full tune once i get my downpipe installed and get a resonator installed on my midpipe, but i'd love to let you gather data from my car!

    My mods will be as follows:

    AMS UICP
    AMS 02 Downpipe
    AMS intercooler
    AMS intake
    RRE HFC (may switch out to AMS Test pipe when i get a resonator installed on the catback)
    Greddy TIC

  10. #30
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    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    I already tested an AMS intake and it really messed up the fuel trims. I do not remember by how much, all that I know that it did.

  11. #31

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    oh boy... would you recommend me changing my setup with regards to the intake? or is it possible to alter the fuel trims to acceptable levels wiht this intake?

  12. #32

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    if you have an intake already just stick with it.* Fuel trims can be controlled with proper MAF scaling or adjusting injector scalings/latencies to bring them within decent range in closed loop under normal driving.* Its also wise to disable the fuel trim from affecting WOT runs and turning lean spool off to make AFRs more consistent... this is all tuner "preference" :twisted:

  13. #33

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    hey naji, i wanted to know if you are interested on data logging a Ultimate Racing intake since you dont have this, i presume.

    i currently have just that intake and UR cat-back. currently it gave me a p0171 code. :)
    Birthday: 11/13/09
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  14. #34
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    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Quote Originally Posted by bluaeon
    hey naji, i wanted to know if you are interested on data logging a Ultimate Racing intake since you dont have this, i presume.

    i currently have just that intake and UR cat-back. currently it gave me a p0171 code. :)
    I just finished logging a car with a UR intake. Its idle trim was 9.75-12.5% and its cruise trim was 10.5-12.5%. Needless to say, I do NOT recommend this intake. The best Evo X intake is STILL the Injen Intake. It does not drift the trims way positive (5-7% only) and it does not trigger a p0171. All others that I have tested so far are POS.

  15. #35
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    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    So far I have tested the following intakes for fuel trims drift:

    AEM intake. Tested the most of them since they are CARB legal in CA. Fuel trims drift up to +12.5% and trigger a p0171 on occasion. Must tune the car for the intake.
    ETS intake. Tested several of them. They drift the trims way positive. I do not remember by how much since I did not keep the logs. Must tune the car for the intake.
    AGP intake. Tested a couple of them. They drift the trims positive and trigger a p0171. I do not remember by how much since I did not keep the logs. Must tune the car for the intake.
    UR intake. Tested a couple of them. Fuel trims drift up to +12.5%. Must tune the car for the intake.
    HKS intake. Tested one of them. Crazy drift run to run. Max was 10.2%. Must tune intake for the car.

    Injen intake. Tested several of them. The trims stay under control at 5-7% positive. PERFECT intake. Sold only with the UICP and maybe LICP. You do not have to tune the car for the intake. One of the rare intakes that actually works on the Evo X. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

  16. #36

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Quote Originally Posted by Looney Tuning
    Quote Originally Posted by bluaeon
    hey naji, i wanted to know if you are interested on data logging a Ultimate Racing intake since you dont have this, i presume.

    i currently have just that intake and UR cat-back. currently it gave me a p0171 code. :)
    I just finished logging a car with a UR intake. Its idle trim was 9.75-12.5% and its cruise trim was 10.5-12.5%. Needless to say, I do NOT recommend this intake. The best Evo X intake is STILL the Injen Intake. It does not drift the trims way positive (5-7% only) and it does not trigger a p0171. All others that I have tested so far are POS.
    I noted the same data. Joel's (bluaeon) idle and cruise trims were maxed out a and simple injector rescale is the solution.

  17. #37

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    hey naji, im installing a K&N this week care to test it out sometime?
    ive been talking to mike kojima about making mine a project car for Motoiq :D he said your the man for tuning!

  18. #38
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    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Quote Originally Posted by evogrenade
    hey naji, im installing a K&N this week care to test it out sometime?
    ive been talking to mike kojima about making mine a project car for Motoiq :D he said your the man for tuning!
    Sure, why not? Just fill and submit the info form in my signature when you have a TBE with a test pipe and the intake. Then we can test for the trims and tune the car. Is your car an MR or GSR? What year?

  19. #39

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Quote Originally Posted by Looney Tuning
    Quote Originally Posted by evogrenade
    hey naji, im installing a K&N this week care to test it out sometime?
    ive been talking to mike kojima about making mine a project car for Motoiq :D he said your the man for tuning!
    Sure, why not? Just fill and submit the info form in my signature when you have a TBE with a test pipe and the intake. Then we can test for the trims and tune the car. Is your car an MR or GSR? What year?
    2010 GSR. Ill be sure to contact you when its ready.

  20. #40

    Re: Intakes, Fuel Trims, and AFR

    Quote Originally Posted by toku-one
    i wish i had a means of fabrication so that i could try something out.
    id like to move the maf back on the aem (similar to the injen) to see if this corrects the problem.
    seems like if you could put it on the rubber element right before the bend (near the stock dv location) it would be far enough away.

    the one thing that i have to say about it is that its all relative to the filter. the maf is close to its original stock location on all those the intakes in question... so its really a combination of the maf being too close to a cone filter... maybe it has something to do with difference in the air "turbulence"... as im not engineer i really have no idea. but it seems like that would be something interesting to test out, if one had the means.

    You nailed it, the MAF sensor relies on laminar airflow for measurement. The farther away the sensor is away from the perturbation (cone filter) the better chance the air has to reattach to the boundary layer and become laminar. +1 for identifying LTFT drift related to MAF sensor location relative to filter. This is a great thread. Thanks Looney

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