Alright so currently I have the Defi Advance Control Unit II and a Defi BF Boost gauge. I'm not going for any crazy power or anything, just basic bolt on mods. I canyon the car (way too much,) and I'm tracking it more and more. I'm hoping to get it tuned soon as well.
With all of that in mind, what other gauges would you deem necessary, or at least recommend?
I have boost and wideband, think oil pressure will be next for me since that was what I was suggested
The basic Zeitronix kit has Boost, AFR/Lambda and EGT.
I also have a voltage gauge as part of my HKS turbo timer.
Beyond that, I someday, i would like to add Oil temp and pressure and possibly water temp or fuel pressure...
Strange, I was told wideband was pretty pointless for this kind of application, since it shouldn't be changing once I'm tuned.
Call me a noob, but what's lambda?
And finally, I heard EGT is kind of old technology and not necessary anymore?
lambda is a cross reference for AFR for me. Some tuners prefer Lambda over AFR. For me, I just use it as a cross reference point on WOT. During cruising and idle, it dances around bit. However, cruising AFR seems to be around 14.7. WOT seems to be around 11.5. If I see 12+ at WOT, I will start to stress it. 12.5 is getting to the point where shit gets hectic lean at WOT from my understanding. [tuners feel free to correct this info].
FROM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air%E2%80%93fuel_ratio:
Air-Fuel Equivalence Ratio
Air-Fuel equivalence ratio, λ (lambda), is the ratio of actual AFR to stoichiometry for a given mixture. λ= 1.0 is at stoichiometry, rich mixtures λ < 1.0, and lean mixtures λ > 1.0.
There is a direct relationship between λ and AFR. To calculate AFR from a given λ, multiply the measured λ by the stoichiometric AFR for that fuel. Alternatively, to recover λ from an AFR, divide AFR by the stoichiometric AFR for that fuel. This last equation is often used as the definition of λ:
Because the composition of common fuels varies seasonally, and because many modern vehicles can handle different fuels, when tuning, it makes more sense to talk about λ values rather than AFR.
Most practical AFR devices actually measure the amount of residual oxygen (for lean mixes) or unburnt hydrocarbons (for rich mixtures) in the exhaust gas as know in PPCHS.
Here is a cool write up from Autometer on why wideband is useful but basically wideband is more accurate:
http://www.autometer.com/tech_faq_an...x?sid=1&qid=48
To fully understand why a high performance vehicle tuner would be better off using a wide-band O2 sensor/gauge versus a narrow band setup, we must first understand what each sensor was originally developed to do.
Narrow Band O2 Sensors began to appear on vehicles with the advent of fuel injection in the 1980’s. Their purpose was to monitor component degradation (i.e. fuel injectors, vacuum leaks) of vehicles as they accumulated miles. Their basic job was to let the computer know whether the vehicle was running at an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1 under idle (ideal ratio for gasoline engines), moderate acceleration, and cruise conditions, and if it wasn’t, to “trim” the injector pulse-width to either slightly lean or richen the engine. When the computer is paying attention to the input from the O2 sensor, the engine is operating in a “closed-loop” capacity. Under heavier acceleration or wide-open throttle the computer ignores the O2 sensor because it requires an air/fuel ratio other than 14.7:1, which is outside the design parameters of the sensor. This is known as “open-loop” operation. The sensor lets the computer know if the engine is running above or below 14.7:1 by sending voltage to the computer in a range between 0 and 1 volt, usually sweeping between the two extremes of this scale. Auto Meter’s traditional narrow-band air/fuel ratio gauges are simply a voltmeter for this signal. This can be seen by the repeated sweeping back and forth of the gauge in most idle, light throttle, and cruise conditions. To summarize, a narrow band O2 sensor is only able to tell a computer (or gauge, for that matter) whether an engine is operating above or below a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio.
Wide Band O2 Sensors where developed in the early ‘90s as vehicle manufacturers began looking to obtain air/fuel ratio information under all circumstances. This ranged from WOT to varying ratios, for example running air/fuel ratios leaner than 14.7:1 under cruise conditions. Volkswagen and Honda pioneered the development of the wide-band O2 sensors to provide accurate air-fuel ratios under these varying circumstances. They did this by broadening the voltage range in which feedback from the sensor was provided and making a linear scale that provided a fixed voltage that correlated to a specific air/fuel ratio.
High performance vehicle tuners discovered that wide-band O2 sensors are very helpful when accurate air/fuel ratio readings are required to maximize power, reliability, and mileage on modified vehicles. With these benefits in mind and to meet consumer demand, Auto Meter has created a wide-band air/fuel ratio gauge/sensor to augment our popular narrow band, gauge only offering. This unit uses the Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor that is known industry wide to be both accurate and durable, along with an advanced control unit that is encased entirely within the gauge head. Further, the gauge head utilizes both an LED readout, for accuracy, and a radial display for ease of reading. Combined with user definable stoichiometric ranges and voltage outputs, Auto Meter’s wide-band gauge creates a useful and greatly needed tool for the tuning market. As an added bonus, Auto Meter will be offering these gauge kits in our most popular gauge lines.
Last, EGT is important in the sense that if your EGT is too hot, you are going to break/melt shit. It is a good way to see if you are running things too hot. I might be wrong but this also helps as another cross reference to your AFR in the sense that too hot = too lean. So anything above 1650 or so should be cause for some concern with most applications. Once you go over that, you will start to see some knock from my understanding. If you are under 1600 or so at WOT, it is safer, slower and richer from my understanding. [I am heavily paraphrasing Mike W from memory here].
p.s. you don't have to run any of this stuff...I am just telling you what I use and plan to use. The mad JDM set ups a few years back was the DEFI 3 pod dash set up with BOOST with a couple other gauges of your choice:
I'd like to run something sexy like this (but with 52mm gauges) + the Zeitronix gauge I already have. To me, that would be pretty ideal once all the warnings and whatnot were set up. It would be good for logging and telling you before shit blows up (ideally).
A wideband is a safety must just as boost gauge, just cause your tuned you don't know if your gonna get a bad batch of fuel and run lean or something. The last thing you want is you're flooring it in the fwy and start running lean and them boom!! There goes your engine.
So what does a lambda do better than a wideband?
Wideband gives you better lambda and AFR readings from the O2 sensor. The old style gauges could only tell if something was leaner or richer than 14.7 (normal cruising AFR). Wideband can tell you the AFR/Lambda readings with accuracy. Most gauge companies have gauges that will read from the O2 sensor and give you Lambda and/or AFR readings so you can know what you are running at WOT and possibly set up warnings and/or cut offs for certain dangerous levels. It also helps a tuner tune with more accuracy.
Wideband & Boost gauge.
those gauges look huge I have Pro sport gauges not to expensive and I haven't had any problems with them.Originally Posted by jamesinger
p.s. you don't have to run any of this stuff...I am just telling you what I use and plan to use. The mad JDM set ups a few years back was the DEFI 3 pod dash set up with BOOST with a couple other gauges of your choice:
I'd like to run something sexy like this (but with 52mm gauges) + the Zeitronix gauge I already have. To me, that would be pretty ideal once all the warnings and whatnot were set up. It would be good for logging and telling you before shit blows up (ideally).
the trend about 5 years ago was to have like 62mm gauges. I always thought they were a bit excessive. I like 52mm gauges. That is what is the stock EVO in dash gauges were I think...
For safety factors already stated I run, Wideband, Boost, and Oil Pressure.
Guages aren't to tell you how much power you are making; they are your safety net before you break something.
'03 BBY VIII GSR (The Blue Bomber) Corn Fed + some
'10 WW X MR (Her car) "RRE Super Stock"
Yeah I have 52mm as well and they are starting to bug me now..
Pictures or you is lying
= for all your needs call Alfred@TTech -909-783-1200
Pictures of what my gauges? homeboy you havent seen my car in like 2 years its changed a lot.
I go by your house all the time rims change every other month that's about it :)
haahaaha fkn stalker!
Lambda is just a different unit of measurement for air fuel ratio. 1.0 Lambda is 14.7:1 (air:fuel). Like how Miles and Kilometers are different but both are referring to distance.
I'll ditto most of the above. AFR and Boost are probably a good idea if you are going to be messing with things that would affect those.
EGT is not as popular these days as most of them are generally a bit slow to react, so it's not really a great early warning system. They can be useful for tuning however, as a reference for where an engine makes max torque at WOT, or if you are using leaded fuel and don't want to kill your wideband sensor.
Oil temp is a good one particularly if you plan on thrashing the car in the canyons, mountains, track etc. Not hard to get the oil temps up high in those situations. The factory coolant temp can vary a lot without the factory gauge moving at all. As far as i can tell, it's got three settings: Cold, operating temp, and too hot. Not entirely useless but leaves a lot to be desired as far as engine monitoring goes. Oil pressure is kind of the same. You've got the dummy light on the dash, but usually by the time that comes on you're fucked.
Those 5 (or 6) are the basics. Some will say overkill, but it all depends on what you are doing. If you just putz around and do a few pulls on the freeway now and again, yeah probably overkill.
I can tell you for sure that the oil pressure light on the dash comes on only below 20psi which to me is pretty frighteningly low. This is measured at the pump no less.
'03 BBY VIII GSR (The Blue Bomber) Corn Fed + some
'10 WW X MR (Her car) "RRE Super Stock"
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